2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[taperoo2k]

Super interesting!

It does make sense that they might have run the car marginally too low or predicted a wet race so accounted for slightly larger tyres.

If it was plank wear due to a compromised setup then it makes sense they'd go a bit slower in certain parts of the track to ensure both cars avoided getting disqualified. Max will always want to go as fast as he can, I doubt Red Bull would say over the radio "Plank wear is marginal, slow down". I think the "Use your head max" might have been a coded message about the plank wear.

Crazy to think there was so much more lap time in the car, given they were on average a second a lap faster overall by losing half a second through eau rouge and kennel straight!

Not that crazy, it just shows how wide the operating window is for the RB19. Even with a compromised setup, in Max's hands it's still the class of the field. It also shows how much of a margin they have over the other teams.

[Sieper]

I don’t buy that margin, sandbagging. I didn’t buy it in the later Merc years too. Yes, if a car and driver are extremely good they may be able to extract some additional pace for some time. But not all the time (fuel burns up, tires wear) and everywhere.

I do believe Lewis was always managing an 8 second gap. Max likes to eak out more, Lewis was just always conserving (tires, engine, fuel) and imho liked this kind of ‘toying’ with opponents whereas Max likes to show how fast he is. Not saying one approach is better, just that both of them were never really sandbagging to somekind of enormous extent.

If merc suddenly finds 8 tenths RBR won’t have another 8 tenths, no way.like we saw with Merc in 21 when RBR made such a jump.

[organic]

I don’t buy that margin, sandbagging. I didn’t buy it in the later Merc years too. Yes, if a car and driver are extremely good they may be able to extract some additional pace for some time. But not all the time (fuel burns up, tires wear) and everywhere.

I do believe Lewis was always managing an 8 second gap. Max likes to eak out more, Lewis was just always conserving (tires, engine, fuel) and imho liked this kind of ‘toying’ with opponents whereas Max likes to show how fast he is. Not saying one approach is better, just that both of them were never really sandbagging to somekind of enormous extent.

If merc suddenly finds 8 tenths RBR won’t have another 8 tenths, no way.like we saw with Merc in 21 when RBR made such a jump.

I think the biggest difference is comparing race radio between races like Hungary 2023, Bahrain 2023 and COTA 2021, Mexico 2022

In cota/Mexico Max is being given new tools for various corners each lap and max is feeding back about how that helps or doesn't, and what the car is doing on the tyres. GP will also be telling Max where other drivers are finding laptime relative to him and how..

Bahrain/Hungary, you have Max and GP barely using the radio to talk to one another. There are many seconds left in the car in terms of just how much Max is trying to conserve the tyres, ignoring how much the driver is actually "pushing"

[dans79]

I think the biggest difference is comparing race radio between races like Hungary 2023, Bahrain 2023 and COTA 2021, Mexico 2022

In cota/Mexico Max is being given new tools for various corners each lap and max is feeding back about how that helps or doesn't, and what the car is doing on the tyres. GP will also be telling Max where other drivers are finding laptime relative to him and how..

Bahrain/Hungary, you have Max and GP barely using the radio to talk to one another. There are many seconds left in the car in terms of just how much Max is trying to conserve the tyres, ignoring how much the driver is actually "pushing"

The only caveat I would add is that, it's not a nice linear relationship like some people think.

for example if you considerer Lap time X:XX.XXX as cruising around. Then -0.5s is a lot more demanding to maintain, and something like -0.8s will require qualifying levels of focus and adjustments to the car.

[Sieper]

21 was a gut wrencher of a year where every point counted. Then you want to try and find whatever you can, even if it perhaps isn’t there. Max learned a lot about the car this year in Baku.

[chrisc90]

There was more going on than expressed in the video about the lifting through Eau Rouge.

Lap 3 to 12 (with the exception of lap 11) was flat.



Now I selected the 3 closest laps (where I presume was normal running with no DRS - I would have to go back and check the lap numbers I made on the Spa thread when I compared the speeds of Max, Lewis and Charles) and also the 3 laps where he was lifting through Eau Rouge.



You can see that by lifting it was around .275 to .300 slower by lifting, that's just to himself. Of course there are some averages in there, but I feel 3 laps where the car was in clear air lifting and 3 laps flat out in clear air is a pretty fair comparison to be able to make. I dont have the fancy scripts to average out stuff so just make of the F1-tempo plots as you may.
Through the same laps Perez was dropping around .200 on average(ish) when he was lifting compared to Max going flat out. There or there abouts ties in with the above figures with it costing Max the .275-300 in time by lifting. (taking note that the .200 is about in the middle of the laps selected, so there was higher and lower than the average)

Id dare bet lifting each time though eau rouge was around .3-.5 worth of laptime just to himself. So on top of dropping half a second to Hamilton and Charles, he was also dropping .300 to .500 just to himself alone in the same stints.

[Edax]

Super interesting!

It does make sense that they might have run the car marginally too low or predicted a wet race so accounted for slightly larger tyres.

Crazy to think there was so much more lap time in the car, given they were on average a second a lap faster overall by losing half a second through eau rouge and kennel straight!

On the one hand it sounds plausible.

On the other hand. The reaon cars bottom out at eau rouge is that there is a dip followed by a steep incline. The cars fall down and then slam onto the onramp. All cars do that, which is giving the nice burned wood smell in the corner.

I would expect that since it is about changing momentum it would be a matter of weight more than ride height, so if the fuel goes down it should lessen making the need for management disappear.

But still it is a big hit, so it seems obvious that they are trying to protect something. Be it the plank floor, fluids or some other marginal component.

Speaking of which, could it be that they were getting to the limit of the driver shock sensor?

[Willy]

Speaking of which, could it be that they were getting to the limit of the driver shock sensor?

They are not measuring that anymore.

[Curbstone]

Super interesting!

It does make sense that they might have run the car marginally too low or predicted a wet race so accounted for slightly larger tyres.

Crazy to think there was so much more lap time in the car, given they were on average a second a lap faster overall by losing half a second through eau rouge and kennel straight!

Actually hey says that idea doesn't really make sense at all.

More logical would be the explanation the underestimated the compression through Eau Rouge / Raidillon, and made a misjudgement in the setup. Don't forget the only had one Free Practice, which was wet so there was not a lot of time to play around with the setup.
Maybe the only found out after (sprint)qualifying or the sprint race the wear on the plank or skidblocks was significantly higher than estimated.


And yeah, the knife cuts both ways; a lower setup would have been beneficial in other sectors, so it's hard to say how much laptime was truly lost.

[marcel171281]

Super interesting!

It does make sense that they might have run the car marginally too low or predicted a wet race so accounted for slightly larger tyres.

Crazy to think there was so much more lap time in the car, given they were on average a second a lap faster overall by losing half a second through eau rouge and kennel straight!

On the one hand it sounds plausible.

On the other hand. The reaon cars bottom out at eau rouge is that there is a dip followed by a steep incline. The cars fall down and then slam onto the onramp. All cars do that, which is giving the nice burned wood smell in the corner.

I would expect that since it is about changing momentum it would be a matter of weight more than ride height, so if the fuel goes down it should lessen making the need for management disappear.

But still it is a big hit, so it seems obvious that they are trying to protect something. Be it the plank floor, fluids or some other marginal component.

Speaking of which, could it be that they were getting to the limit of the driver shock sensor?

Fuel levels are basically irrelevant for ride height in F1 cars. That extra weight is nothing compaired to the 'weight' of the downforce at those speeds. The sudden elevation change will cause probabaly some extra G force in the same direction. Lets say that is 2 G, that is an extra full car weight pushing on the suspension. Whether there is 100kg of 25kg of fuel onbaord is of no influence.

BTW, the RB lifted in almost all fast corners. And if you would want to save the plank in eau rouge wouldn't you want the enter the corner with less speed? To make less compression? They lifted exactly in the middle of the corner, which wouldn't make any difference to ride height. Lifting at the apex is all about limiting energy going through the tyres.

Given the (expected) wet weekend, wouldn't they have chosen a setup that would generate more heat into the tyres? And therefore they were very concerned about too much thermal deg. Something GP literally mentioned to Verstappen during the race.

[Wouter]

I was quite surprised that Max and Perez also went off the gas in Eau Rouge. Max in particular did that in the third stint.
Lost half a second to a second just there.

BrrrakeF1. Former performance engineer of Hulkenberg and Max. He thinks that Red Bull feared the skids.
Listen here. Very interesting.
.

My name is Blake Hinsey and I'm a Former Formula 1 Performance Engineer (Red Bull Racing, Force India).
Now, I'm a full-time content creator and streamer bringing you some of the most unique and insightful F1 Content on the internet!

[TFSA]

BTW, the RB lifted in almost all fast corners. And if you would want to save the plank in eau rouge wouldn't you want the enter the corner with less speed? To make less compression? They lifted exactly in the middle of the corner, which wouldn't make any difference to ride height. Lifting at the apex is all about limiting energy going through the tyres.

They could be doing both.

I don't think what you said there is true. Any lifting will affect ride-height at those speeds, especially when it's a corner that is usually taken foot-flat.
And if you're forced to lift because of a setup issue, you might as well do it in a fast corner close to max speed to save the tires.

[Just_a_fan]

Crazy to think there was so much more lap time in the car, given they were on average a second a lap faster overall by losing half a second through eau rouge and kennel straight!

That's one of the benefits of having a car that is head and shoulders faster than the rest. You can compromise yourself and still romp off in to the distance.

It's a shame Perez isn't close to Max, at least then we'd get the chance of racing at the front like we did in 2014 when the Mercs were well ahead. Makes for a boring front of the race, although there is interest further back thankfully.

[Wouter]

EXCLUSIVE: Max Verstappen setting up his own racing team

Frank Woestenburg
August 2, 2023

Behind the scenes, Max Verstappen is busy setting up his own racing team. The two-time Red Bull world champion tells this in an exclusive interview with FORMULA 1 Magazine. Verstappen is aiming for its own team in the GT3 class with Verstappen.com Racing and hopes that it can be operational as early as 2025. “This project energizes me,” he says.

Read a small part of the interview with Max Verstappen about setting up his own racing team below. The full extensive interview can be read in the Dutch GP Special of FORMULA 1 Magazine.

Can you tell us what exactly the Verstappen.com Racing project entails?

“It is still somewhat in its infancy. From Verstappen.com Racing we sponsor and support various racing activities of people close to me in advice and advice. It all started with Team Redline sim racing. In addition, with Verstappen.com Racing we are now also active with Thierry Vermeulen in DTM and GTWC Sprint and with my father in rallying, but the ultimate goal is to set up our own racing team. We will start in the GT3 class and then we will see where the ship strands at some point. If it strands.”

“When I do something, I want to do it well. I want to win, even with this. And it's about being able to create a stepping stone from sim racing to GT3. So that you can not only end up in motorsport through karting, because that costs a lot of money at the moment.”

Verstappen about racing team: 'Growing to the highest level'

And the ambitions for the future, assuming that an own GT3 team is the first step?

“Well, of course you never know how things will turn out, but ambitions are always there. Of course it depends on how many good people we will have in the team and how much know-how there is, but it would be nice if we could grow to the highest level in endurance racing.”

Do you have a timeline in mind when it comes to the further development of Verstappen.com Racing?

“We are currently working on that. The next step is our own GT3 team. Next year is pretty tight, but I want it as soon as possible. A GT3 team in 2025, that should fit. With at least two cars.”

You're talking about 2025, that's very soon.

“We are also busy. The planning phase is over, we are already in action mode.”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Monday July 10 till Wednesday July 12 Max was on circuit Mugello for testing his new GT3 cars of his own team Verstappen.com Racing. 6 pictures.

[basti313]

Given the (expected) wet weekend, wouldn't they have chosen a setup that would generate more heat into the tyres? And therefore they were very concerned about too much thermal deg. Something GP literally mentioned to Verstappen during the race.

I think this is the point. No one knew how the tires were affected, so they had to play it save in Eau rouge. If you run the car 1sec faster then the rest you simply have more risk of a tire failure.