2023 Alpine F1 Team

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Big Tea
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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I can not help but think they may be lining up for a total pull out of F1, or at best an engine supply only.
Could they be slipping the F1 guys aside so they can bring in some with knowledge of other series?
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

KimiRai
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
03 Aug 2023, 15:28
The truthh is just now starting to come out ....https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-al ... /10503680/

From then on, the arrows were not lacking and recently, while admitting that he understood his decision, Szafnauer again referred to the age of Alonso, arguing that the current Alpine formation (Pierre Gasly and Esteban Ocon) is younger.

In an exclusive interview with the BBC, Fernando Alonso he had the opportunity to respond and took it on the fly: "I didn't feel like I had disrespected it, but we started the contractual negotiations I think already in April, in Australia, and it took longer than I expected to end the process, "he recalled.

"The negotiations were proceeding at a very slow pace and this was not up to me. I was ready and quite satisfied with the team. The 2022 car was fast, so I was happy with the performance and possibilities for the future". However, Alonso wanted a two-year contract and in Szafnauer this seemed too much.

"So there have been many factors, such as the fact that the negotiations have not materialized, that nothing of what we talked about was written down and various comments about my age. That's how things work in Alpine, or at least that's how Otmar does business".

Alonso's words came before Alpine announced Szafnauer's departure on Friday. Continuing to talk about Otmar, # 14 added: "They made a lot of comments about my age and continue to do so. After this year, he should shut up and not even speak. I find it strange that he is proud of his team's performance, especially seeing what Aston Martin is showing".

In 2022 Alonso had claimed he wasn't negotiating with Otmar, he was negotiating with Rossi.
Even to this day it's very weird how poorly they treated their double world champion with which they won it all, calling him old and all that... what were they thinking really, I'll never understand it.

organic wrote:
03 Aug 2023, 17:48
I don't think it would be possible to rebuild in a different country like that with the amount of cap excluded spending that teams are allowed.
I thought buildings were excluded from capital expenditure but not what is inside of them.

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diffuser
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:
03 Aug 2023, 17:52
AR3-GP wrote:
03 Aug 2023, 17:47
Wouldn't that drive up manufacturing and labor cost?
Would it? At least it would be "made in France" which is very important.

I understand that Renault have only spent 70m GBP upgrading the Enstone factory since 2016, so building an entire new factory (as Aston Martin Racing have recently done) is unlikely to cost more than 3-4x that.

organic wrote:
03 Aug 2023, 17:48
I don't think it would be possible to rebuild in a different country like that with the amount of cap excluded spending that teams are allowed.
Politically savvy Renault could no doubt negotiate a concession for this move. :)

AR3-GP wrote:
03 Aug 2023, 17:47
There is zero evidence that there's a legion of french nationals in waiting ready to build an F1 car, and you will not get all of the brits to move to France either.
To the contrary, they would have pick of the best engineering talent instead of competing with six other Formula One teams! Renault road car engineers could be rotated through the Grand Prix team, like the "Honda way".

It would allow Famin to oversee both engine and chassis on the same site.
Didn't they just disallow Williams to by pass the budget for equipment upgrades ?

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FW17
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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organic wrote:
02 Aug 2023, 23:32
Insane that the board moves with such big decisions based on things out of control of anyone but the drivers on track (and in this case nobody was to blame)

When 2 Alfa Romeos are ahead in qualifying it would have been alarm bells.

Aston Martin make a faster car, Mclaren then make a faster car, now Alfa Romeo? Conversations would have started soon after Saturday for team managers to get sacked.


There was talk that Mattia Binatto attended to Pirelli tyre test last week. With only Mclaren and Alpine on track, was he at Alpine or Pirelli?

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FW17
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:
03 Aug 2023, 17:52
AR3-GP wrote:
03 Aug 2023, 17:47
Wouldn't that drive up manufacturing and labor cost?
Would it? At least it would be "made in France" which is very important.

I understand that Renault have only spent 70m GBP upgrading the Enstone factory since 2016, so building an entire new factory (as Aston Martin Racing have recently done) is unlikely to cost more than 3-4x that.

organic wrote:
03 Aug 2023, 17:48
I don't think it would be possible to rebuild in a different country like that with the amount of cap excluded spending that teams are allowed.
Politically savvy Renault could no doubt negotiate a concession for this move. :)

AR3-GP wrote:
03 Aug 2023, 17:47
There is zero evidence that there's a legion of french nationals in waiting ready to build an F1 car, and you will not get all of the brits to move to France either.
To the contrary, they would have pick of the best engineering talent instead of competing with six other Formula One teams! Renault road car engineers could be rotated through the Grand Prix team, like the "Honda way".

It would allow Famin to oversee both engine and chassis on the same site.
It is always better to have everything under one roof. Enstone just does not work anymore, they should move to Paris.

It is not just French engineers, they would have an easier time hiring within the EU without having to compete for talent among the 7 teams already based in the UK.

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FW17
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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FW17 wrote:
07 Aug 2023, 08:45

It is always better to have everything under one roof. Enstone just does not work anymore, they should move to Paris.
None of the teams who won championships in the last decade have everything under 1 roof.

The location of enstone is not the problem. It wasn't the problem in 2005, 2010, or now.
A lion must kill its prey.

Farnborough
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
08 Aug 2023, 05:12
FW17 wrote:
07 Aug 2023, 08:45

It is always better to have everything under one roof. Enstone just does not work anymore, they should move to Paris.
None of the teams who won championships in the last decade have everything under 1 roof.

The location of enstone is not the problem. It wasn't the problem in 2005, 2010, or now.
Agree, the location is irrelevant, the management of it everything, almost ! Todt era Ferrari an exception in this category of even making their own vehicles in entirety.
Failure of BMW, Toyota, Renault Honda a significant list of failure to build both engine and car/team to world championship winning effectiveness is an illustrious role call.

I think only Ferrari may be successful (single site operators) in this regard ? Renault themselves managed to dodge a world championship when all France based.

MB an amalgamation of two principle sites too.

Alipine seem to have everybody and now nobody pulling them in undetermined direction, more uncertainty through moving highly unlikely to increase focus in any sensible time frame. It needs really potent management more than ever.

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Stu
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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Big Tea wrote:
03 Aug 2023, 17:59
I can not help but think they may be lining up for a total pull out of F1, or at best an engine supply only.
Could they be slipping the F1 guys aside so they can bring in some with knowledge of other series?
I don’t think that this is too far off; the Alpine brand would be better suited to WEC (they have just launched an LMDh prototype), as well as announcing an H2 racer/road car (again a route being pushed by the ACO), so maybe Enstone will come up for sale…

…and become…







…Andretti F1???
Stranger things have happened!
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the EDGE
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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Stu wrote:
08 Aug 2023, 07:55
Big Tea wrote:
03 Aug 2023, 17:59
I can not help but think they may be lining up for a total pull out of F1, or at best an engine supply only.
Could they be slipping the F1 guys aside so they can bring in some with knowledge of other series?
I don’t think that this is too far off; the Alpine brand would be better suited to WEC (they have just launched an LMDh prototype), as well as announcing an H2 racer/road car (again a route being pushed by the ACO), so maybe Enstone will come up for sale…

…and become…







…Andretti F1???
Stranger things have happened!
I’ve said before on here, Renault and other publicly owned companies don’t have the patience (time) or understanding for what is required to compete successfully in F1. Only 2 teams have won a championship in the past 14 years, to break-through that will take far more than commitment & hard-work

But I can’t see them just moving the team onto another series (if that’s what’s being implied), it’s value is the staff & the facilities (and of course the racing license), so to break that up before selling, is basically devaluing your asset

I do agree they would fair better elsewhere, but does WEC bring you the marketing reach they want? I don’t think so, most people at least know what F1 is… most people do not know what WEC is

And that’s the real problem with Alpine… they are in F1 for all of the wrong reasons, they admit they are there to market their cars, it formed the entirety of Famin’s response when asked to explain why the top brass was moving on… how do you compete with teams that are in F1 because they love to race

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FW17
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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Farnborough wrote:
08 Aug 2023, 07:15
AR3-GP wrote:
08 Aug 2023, 05:12
FW17 wrote:
07 Aug 2023, 08:45

It is always better to have everything under one roof. Enstone just does not work anymore, they should move to Paris.
None of the teams who won championships in the last decade have everything under 1 roof.

The location of enstone is not the problem. It wasn't the problem in 2005, 2010, or now.
Agree, the location is irrelevant, the management of it everything, almost ! Todt era Ferrari an exception in this category of even making their own vehicles in entirety.
Failure of BMW, Toyota, Renault Honda a significant list of failure to build both engine and car/team to world championship winning effectiveness is an illustrious role call.

I think only Ferrari may be successful (single site operators) in this regard ? Renault themselves managed to dodge a world championship when all France based.

MB an amalgamation of two principle sites too.

Alipine seem to have everybody and now nobody pulling them in undetermined direction, more uncertainty through moving highly unlikely to increase focus in any sensible time frame. It needs really potent management more than ever.
Fair point.

But Alpine F1 team being in Paris would bring a lot more stability to the project by being closer to the Group HQ.

If Alpine does pull out, its staff would most certainly be absorbed into other areas of Renault. The closest example of this stability would be the Honda engine project, there were 2 bases one in UK the other in Japan. the facilities and Staff in Japan were all reassigned, the UK one was shut down. The same can be said about BMW, the team was left to pick the pieces while the engine department were all reassigned within BMW. Renault left the team to Genii, what happened was unspeakable horror.

Alpine is a factory team of F1, but still is left independent without any of the benefits of size and scale of Renault

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Juzh
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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FW17 wrote:
08 Aug 2023, 09:56
Farnborough wrote:
08 Aug 2023, 07:15
AR3-GP wrote:
08 Aug 2023, 05:12


None of the teams who won championships in the last decade have everything under 1 roof.

The location of enstone is not the problem. It wasn't the problem in 2005, 2010, or now.
Agree, the location is irrelevant, the management of it everything, almost ! Todt era Ferrari an exception in this category of even making their own vehicles in entirety.
Failure of BMW, Toyota, Renault Honda a significant list of failure to build both engine and car/team to world championship winning effectiveness is an illustrious role call.

I think only Ferrari may be successful (single site operators) in this regard ? Renault themselves managed to dodge a world championship when all France based.

MB an amalgamation of two principle sites too.

Alipine seem to have everybody and now nobody pulling them in undetermined direction, more uncertainty through moving highly unlikely to increase focus in any sensible time frame. It needs really potent management more than ever.
Fair point.

But Alpine F1 team being in Paris would bring a lot more stability to the project by being closer to the Group HQ.

If Alpine does pull out, its staff would most certainly be absorbed into other areas of Renault. The closest example of this stability would be the Honda engine project, there were 2 bases one in UK the other in Japan. the facilities and Staff in Japan were all reassigned, the UK one was shut down. The same can be said about BMW, the team was left to pick the pieces while the engine department were all reassigned within BMW. Renault left the team to Genii, what happened was unspeakable horror.

Alpine is a factory team of F1, but still is left independent without any of the benefits of size and scale of Renault
UK department was picked up by RBPT and is operating today as far as I know. It might have been transferred over to RBs premises but I believe most personnel who wanted to stay could and did.

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FW17
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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Juzh wrote:
08 Aug 2023, 10:05
FW17 wrote:
08 Aug 2023, 09:56
Farnborough wrote:
08 Aug 2023, 07:15

Agree, the location is irrelevant, the management of it everything, almost ! Todt era Ferrari an exception in this category of even making their own vehicles in entirety.
Failure of BMW, Toyota, Renault Honda a significant list of failure to build both engine and car/team to world championship winning effectiveness is an illustrious role call.

I think only Ferrari may be successful (single site operators) in this regard ? Renault themselves managed to dodge a world championship when all France based.

MB an amalgamation of two principle sites too.

Alipine seem to have everybody and now nobody pulling them in undetermined direction, more uncertainty through moving highly unlikely to increase focus in any sensible time frame. It needs really potent management more than ever.
Fair point.

But Alpine F1 team being in Paris would bring a lot more stability to the project by being closer to the Group HQ.

If Alpine does pull out, its staff would most certainly be absorbed into other areas of Renault. The closest example of this stability would be the Honda engine project, there were 2 bases one in UK the other in Japan. the facilities and Staff in Japan were all reassigned, the UK one was shut down. The same can be said about BMW, the team was left to pick the pieces while the engine department were all reassigned within BMW. Renault left the team to Genii, what happened was unspeakable horror.

Alpine is a factory team of F1, but still is left independent without any of the benefits of size and scale of Renault
UK department was picked up by RBPT and is operating today as far as I know. It might have been transferred over to RBs premises but I believe most personnel who wanted to stay could and did.
What would have happened if Honda were not willing to sell like in 2008?

the EDGE
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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Helmut Marko’s answer to Alpine’s problems will be music to Andretti’s ears
Is it that obvious to everybody… or does Marko read F1t :lol: (it would certainly explain a lot of the Max v Lewis arguments :mrgreen: )

https://uk.yahoo.com/sports/news/helmut ... 00886.html

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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Stu wrote:
08 Aug 2023, 07:55
I don’t think that this is too far off; the Alpine brand would be better suited to WEC (they have just launched an LMDh prototype), as well as announcing an H2 racer/road car (again a route being pushed by the ACO), so maybe Enstone will come up for sale…
Did Enstone design the aero kit for the LMDh car or did Oreca design it? :?:

Going the LMH route would have, IMO, better utilised Enstone's capabilities and created budget cap opportunities.