2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

[TimW]

...

As for the weather; seems Sunday afternoon becomes somewhat dryer.
Fri seems to be dry, Sat wet-ish and Sunday as well though a little less wet ..
(The WG model (top) is the accumulated & weighted model using all other models)

https://www.windguru.cz/19439

ECMWF model predictions have rain the entire weekend:

https://charts.ecmwf.int/products/mediu ... 2308251500

[organic]

This year must have a very high % of rain-affected sessions...

I think the last time we had a completely dry weekend was Miami! Pretty absurd

[langedweil]

...

As for the weather; seems Sunday afternoon becomes somewhat dryer.
Fri seems to be dry, Sat wet-ish and Sunday as well though a little less wet ..
(The WG model (top) is the accumulated & weighted model using all other models)

https://www.windguru.cz/19439

ECMWF model predictions have rain the entire weekend:

https://charts.ecmwf.int/products/mediu ... 2308251500

I know, and ECMWF is usually more accurate than GFS in Europe. Icon13 has a little higher resolution, but where I live (caribbean) it's usually GFS that performs better.
Long story short, we'll have the complete picture at Sunday evening

[Sieper]

This year must have a very high % of rain-affected sessions...

I think the last time we had a completely dry weekend was Miami! Pretty absurd

Yes. Makes it all the more special what Max is doing.

[PlatinumZealot]

Do you mean the gravity-bending downforce of the RB19?

[organic]

Do you mean the gravity-bending downforce of the RB19?

Downforce doesn't really seem to be the rb's strength over the field. They're clearly sporting high downforce levels, but they're not the quickest in any speed of corner nor have they been out of reach in qualifying at many circuits.

McLaren have routinely been quickest in high speed this year, even before their upgrade package. Amr quicker than RB in slow speed until issues, Merc quicker than RB in slow speed since their new front wing.

Peak downforce sensitive track like Monaco was the toughest track for rb19 to beat its opposition.

RB's strength lies in a high efficiency, balanced car that has consistent characteristics. It's not a downforce monster like, for instance, the W11

[organic]

Let's see those upgrades then. Show me the money AMR

[ValeVida46]

Peak downforce sensitive track like Monaco was the toughest track for rb19 to beat its opposition.

RB's strength lies in a high efficiency, balanced car that has consistent characteristics. It's not a downforce monster like, for instance, the W11

And yet it still beat the opposition by over 25 seconds in the race at Monaco(after claiming pole), a race that favours outright downforce.
Emphasising the efficiency narrative can't hide the reality that the RB still has more usable downforce than anything else.

[Wouter]

I think this is gona be between Lewis and Max. This circuit suits Lewis his car.

In the meanwhile a few minutes ago:

https://scontent-ams2-1.cdninstagram.co ... sid=6d62aa

[AMG.Tzan]

This year must have a very high % of rain-affected sessions...

I think the last time we had a completely dry weekend was Miami! Pretty absurd

Yes. Makes it all the more special what Max is doing.

Yes Max is amazing

[organic]

Peak downforce sensitive track like Monaco was the toughest track for rb19 to beat its opposition.

RB's strength lies in a high efficiency, balanced car that has consistent characteristics. It's not a downforce monster like, for instance, the W11

And yet it still beat the opposition by over 25 seconds in the race at Monaco(after claiming pole), a race that favours outright downforce.
Emphasising the efficiency narrative can't hide the reality that the RB still has more usable downforce than anything else.

Because Alonso took an extra pitstop Did you not watch the race ?!

Alonso could've won Monaco race with a switch to inters on the correct lap too

[ringo]

RB19 has the most downforce.
It can be put succintly as that. Remember all cars can crank on wing and go to the ground to get as much downforce as they want. But that wont translate to lap time because of track layout.
Redbull have been able to have the most downforce while translating that to lap time. So in essence that's the car which can add downforce with the least compromise with drag.
Looking at lat last years highlights I am really looking forward to the fight behind redbull.

How was tyre deg here last time out? I can see Ferrari being very competitive but fall short if deg comes into play. Maybe Aston's early season advantage to preserve the tyres showd up here. Merc may just be the all rounder. So I am intrigued in how these three teams and tge dark horse Mclaren duke it out.

[ValeVida46]

Peak downforce sensitive track like Monaco was the toughest track for rb19 to beat its opposition.

RB's strength lies in a high efficiency, balanced car that has consistent characteristics. It's not a downforce monster like, for instance, the W11

And yet it still beat the opposition by over 25 seconds in the race at Monaco(after claiming pole), a race that favours outright downforce.
Emphasising the efficiency narrative can't hide the reality that the RB still has more usable downforce than anything else.

Because Alonso took an extra pitstop Did you not watch the race ?!

Alonso could've won Monaco race with a switch to inters on the correct lap too

The amusing thing is basing your whole downforce theory on "could've" When:

Verstappen got pole.
He led every lap of the race.
https://www.statsf1.com/en/2023/monaco/en-tete.aspx
He won by over 25 seconds.

If we are going to stretch that far, may as well stop calling this site F1technical.

[organic]

How was tyre deg here last time out? I can see Ferrari being very competitive but fall short if deg comes into play. Maybe Aston's early season advantage to preserve the tyres showd up here. Merc may just be the all rounder. So I am intrigued in how these three teams and tge dark horse Mclaren duke it out.

The tyre deg was high. Merc were going to 2-stop with Medium-Hard-Medium last year. Lots of thermal deg and it caused one of the most intriguing strategic races of last season

And yet it still beat the opposition by over 25 seconds in the race at Monaco(after claiming pole), a race that favours outright downforce.
Emphasising the efficiency narrative can't hide the reality that the RB still has more usable downforce than anything else.

Because Alonso took an extra pitstop Did you not watch the race ?!

Alonso could've won Monaco race with a switch to inters on the correct lap too

The amusing thing is basing your whole downforce theory on "could've" When:

Verstappen got pole.
He led every lap of the race.
https://www.statsf1.com/en/2023/monaco/en-tete.aspx
He won by over 25 seconds.

If we are going to stretch that far, may as well stop calling this site F1technical.

Well the interesting thing about analysing using "could've" is that you can apply some nuance which you seem to be lacking Regardless it's off-topic let's move on shall we?

[Cs98]

The amusing thing is basing your whole downforce theory on "could've" When:

Verstappen got pole.
He led every lap of the race.
He won by over 25 seconds.

If we are going to stretch that far, may as well stop calling this site F1technical.

Got pole by less than a tenth and won by 25 seconds with the guy in second taking an extra pit-stop. That nuance is rather important if we're gonna use that performance to draw conclusions about relative downforce levels.

If we are going to stretch that far, may as well stop calling this site F1technical.

Ironic given your simplistic analysis not being very "technical". It would be a bit like if I said that Austria was a close race because Max only won by a few seconds, neglecting to mention he pitted two laps from the end.