2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

[issey]

Low downforce wing in Monza and front wing at Singapore?

A new front wing should come for Singapore, what is coming for Monza is not known

According to the same sources who predicted that Aston would bounce back from the summer break, Monza should only be circuit specific changes. Could be a low downforce wing like organic said

Marca said: "Surely in the Dutch Grand Prix, although it could also be in Monza, as MARCA has been able to know. It would be a new development focused on the sidepods, the DRS and the floor."

After a new floor came in Zandvoort i probably expect new sidepods or new wing to get better drs

[AR3-GP]

Ver had his father for him to guide him at each step. Would love to see how he deals with an uncompetitive car. A tough teammate, the politics et al.

The dutch one drove uncompetitive cars against the Aussie from 2016-2018 and an uncompetitive car in 2019 and won a race in 2016, and 2 races per year from 2017-2019.

I really do like Alonso, but I find it a bit of pot calling kettle black in your argument with regards to politics in teams that Alonso participated in. He earned it for sure, but he was certainly the "golden one" at Renault, Ferrari, and Mclaren pt 2. Such was his pace, that it was generally never in the team's interest to hinder him, much like the dutch one.

Again, I generally don't find much if any fault with Alonso's career/actions. Being a top driver requires a comprehensive management of the environment that you are in just like Schumacher before.

[KimiRai]

The dutch one drove uncompetitive cars against the Aussie from 2016-2018 and an uncompetitive car in 2019 and won a race in 2016, and 2 races per year from 2017-2019.

Depends how you define competitive. If the car is able to win a non-crazy race then it definitely is competitive imo. Red Bulls have been competitive for many years

If you use the definition of competitive that an Alonso fan would think, then the only uncompetitive car Max has ever driven is Toro Rosso.

[AR3-GP]

The dutch one drove uncompetitive cars against the Aussie from 2016-2018 and an uncompetitive car in 2019 and won a race in 2016, and 2 races per year from 2017-2019.

Depends how you define competitive. If the car is able to win a non-crazy race then it definitely is competitive imo. Red Bulls have been competitive for many years

If you use the definition of competitive that an Alonso fan would think, then Max has never driven a real uncompetitive car apart from Toro Rosso.

I'll probably get sent on holiday if I go off topic much more as I've been "reminded" about this...

In a sheepish effort to make this about Aston Martin again, I would say that this year's AMR23 is not a true competitive car, but it's similar some '16-'19 Rbs so that's the reference point if that makes sense. AMR/Alonso had chances in Monaco and Canada which for one reason or another did not quite pan out. Just a touch more from Alonso in Monaco and he has pole and arguably a win. Without the lift and coast drama (not his fault), then there's the 2nd win, but it's still generally not competing for the championship (i.e a competitive car)

[alonsofan]

Ver had his father for him to guide him at each step. Would love to see how he deals with an uncompetitive car. A tough teammate, the politics et al.

The dutch one drove uncompetitive cars against the Aussie from 2016-2018 and an uncompetitive car in 2019 and won a race in 2016, and 2 races per year from 2017-2019.

I really do like Alonso, but I find it a bit of pot calling kettle black in your argument with regards to politics in teams that Alonso participated in. He earned it for sure, but he was certainly the "golden one" at Renault, Ferrari, and Mclaren pt 2. Such was his pace, that it was generally never in the team's interest to hinder him, much like the dutch one.

Again, I generally don't find much if any fault with Alonso's career/actions. Being a top driver requires a comprehensive management of the environment that you are in just like Schumacher before.

Alo may hav been a golden boy, but when Alo was at Renault, Schumacher was at Ferrari and the McLaren was also fast if I'm not wrong. When Alo was at Ferrari, the Red Bulls butchered him, still he drove the car to places it shouldn't have been. McLaren part 2, there is nothing to say, golden bot or not, the car was hopeless. Also at Alpine, we all know what Ocon did.

[KimiRai]

Ver had his father for him to guide him at each step. Would love to see how he deals with an uncompetitive car. A tough teammate, the politics et al.

The dutch one drove uncompetitive cars against the Aussie from 2016-2018 and an uncompetitive car in 2019 and won a race in 2016, and 2 races per year from 2017-2019.

I really do like Alonso, but I find it a bit of pot calling kettle black in your argument with regards to politics in teams that Alonso participated in. He earned it for sure, but he was certainly the "golden one" at Renault, Ferrari, and Mclaren pt 2. Such was his pace, that it was generally never in the team's interest to hinder him, much like the dutch one.

Again, I generally don't find much if any fault with Alonso's career/actions. Being a top driver requires a comprehensive management of the environment that you are in just like Schumacher before.

Alo may hav been a golden boy, but when Alo was at Renault, Schumacher was at Ferrari and the McLaren was also fast if I'm not wrong. When Alo was at Ferrari, the Red Bulls butchered him, still he drove the car to places it shouldn't have been. McLaren part 2, there is nothing to say, golden bot or not, the car was hopeless. Also at Alpine, we all know what Ocon did.

When Max was at Redbull Hamilton was at Mercedes. In fact it's a similar dethronement of a 7 times world champion like Alonso to Michael. But you are right in one thing, that Fernando has never had a dominant car.

[AR3-GP]

Ver had his father for him to guide him at each step. Would love to see how he deals with an uncompetitive car. A tough teammate, the politics et al.

The dutch one drove uncompetitive cars against the Aussie from 2016-2018 and an uncompetitive car in 2019 and won a race in 2016, and 2 races per year from 2017-2019.

I really do like Alonso, but I find it a bit of pot calling kettle black in your argument with regards to politics in teams that Alonso participated in. He earned it for sure, but he was certainly the "golden one" at Renault, Ferrari, and Mclaren pt 2. Such was his pace, that it was generally never in the team's interest to hinder him, much like the dutch one.

Again, I generally don't find much if any fault with Alonso's career/actions. Being a top driver requires a comprehensive management of the environment that you are in just like Schumacher before.

Alo may hav been a golden boy, but when Alo was at Renault, Schumacher was at Ferrari and the McLaren was also fast if I'm not wrong. When Alo was at Ferrari, the Red Bulls butchered him, still he drove the car to places it shouldn't have been. McLaren part 2, there is nothing to say, golden bot or not, the car was hopeless. Also at Alpine, we all know what Ocon did.

I've read your post! I'm finding it difficult to stay within the walls of the topic...

So I'll just say, Aston Martin used to be racing point and force india from 2016-2019 and there were interesting seasons and drives. That is all! On topic of course

[KimiRai]

I've read your post! I'm finding it difficult to stay within the walls of the topic...

So I'll just say, Aston Martin used to be racing point and force india from 2016-2019 and there were interesting seasons and drives. That is all! On topic of course

If we are comparing an Aston Martin driver performance with another driver then I doubt there would be an issue with that, if there is then my bad. Sometimes it's difficult to stay on topic because it's all interconnected in a lot of ways.

[AR3-GP]

I've read your post! I'm finding it difficult to stay within the walls of the topic...

So I'll just say, Aston Martin used to be racing point and force india from 2016-2019 and there were interesting seasons and drives. That is all! On topic of course

If we are comparing Alonso's performance in the AMR23 with another driver then I doubt there would be an issue with that, if there is then my bad

Fair enough, I will take your leash! As I said previously, I generally view the AMR23 as comparable to some prior generation RB cars fighting against the juggernauts of 1 or both of Ferrari and Mercedes from 2016-2019. A car that doesn't have the might for a championship challenge, but when maximized at it's favored tracks can do quite well.

Alonso has fought valiantly similar to Verstappen in those years in a generally non championship competition car. Both of them managed to defeat/embarrass the second drivers of the championship winning car on multiple occasions during these time periods. The dutch one's driving is overlooked from 2016-2019 where it assumed that he was driving a "competitive car" but it was really no more competitive than the AMR23. The AMR23 had it's moments. Canada. Monaco where slightly different pit situation and slightly less mechanical trouble and it would have won 2 races, as the dutch one managed in each of '17-'19.

[KimiRai]

Fair enough, I will take your leash! As I said previously, I generally view the AMR23 as comparable to some prior generation RB cars fighting against the juggernauts of 1 or both of Ferrari and Mercedes from 2016-2019. A car that doesn't have the might for a championship challenge, but when maximized at it's favored tracks can do quite well.

Alonso has fought valiantly similar to Verstappen in those years in a generally non championship competition car. Both of them managed to defeat/embarrass the second drivers of the championship winning car on multiple occasions during these time periods. The dutch one's driving is overlooked from 2016-2019 where it assumed that he was driving a "competitive car" but it was really no more competitive than the AMR23. The AMR23 had it's moments. Canada. Monaco where slightly different pit situation and slightly less mechanical trouble and it would have won 2 races, as the dutch one managed in each of '17-'19.

I agree. A shame about the ghost issue in Canada and the strategic failure in Monaco but those are more shortcomings from the team than Fernando himself (at best you could say if he had 15 years less he could've made pole). It proves Red Bull even in those years you mention were a stronger team, after all they came from winning 4 consecutive titles with Vettel prior to that. Last time I saw the The Race supertimes, Aston was the fourth fastest car overall just slightly behind Mercedes. Redbull under Max was the third fastest car at least. So it's true that it's similar to those Red Bulls but I would still rate that team stronger than what Aston is at the moment.

[alonsofan]

I would say it is futile to compare Max with the likes of Alo, Ham at this stage. I would say giv the guy some time. Let him age a little. Time is kind to no one, then may it be Vettle, Alo, Ham. And in the end, what will be left is the driver and how he fought. Let's see

[alonsofan]

I’m hyped

Fingers crossed for Singapore

[diffuser]

There is a peculiar pattern with Lance....whenever a new upgrade is introduced; he simply forgets to drive the car.

Whatever credibility Lance had before I think has absolutely gone now. He's not anywhere near F1 top tier standards even after all the seasons of experience he has had.

Alonso completely outperformed him this weekend and made the gulf embarrassing.

I think Lance screwed himself by not pitting on the first lap, before Alonso. He then had to pit the lap after Alonso and that sent him to the bottom of the grid. He nevet recovered from that.

[peewon]

There is a peculiar pattern with Lance....whenever a new upgrade is introduced; he simply forgets to drive the car.

Whatever credibility Lance had before I think has absolutely gone now. He's not anywhere near F1 top tier standards even after all the seasons of experience he has had.

Alonso completely outperformed him this weekend and made the gulf embarrassing.

I think they tried to stay out like a lot of the other drivers and obviously that was the wrong call. They also got impatient and re-pitted him when he was stuck behind Lec->Bot->Russell DRS train. Likes of Norris and Russell (most drivers who stayed out at the start) had a hard time coming through the field as well and hes obviously not as good as them. I think, with context, P11 isn't the worst performance.

[zoroastar]

Max is the best driver of the grid right now and I don't think anyone could beat him with his current form on the same car. But Fernando would have beat him this race, unluckily we will never know. Max said it himself on the cooldown room that on lap 2 Fernando was very quick behind him.

Max has not put a foot wrong, so I'll giv him credit for that. But look at all the Red Bull drivers. They are lions in Red Bull cars, and once they leave Red Bull, they can't handle it all. The pressure, the politics etc. So credit to max, but I'll say he hasn't been tested enough and been well protected by Red Bull

I think Max has more than proven his metal already as one of the greats. Yet, if you still have doubts, then I guess there's only the definitive exam left: if Fallows somehow manages to find 7 more tenths to our car

are you kidding? 7 more tenths? just 2 races ago, quite a few people were calling Fallows a copycat that couldnt produce a good car unless he stole it from Newey, and thought he should be replaced!

i think that its hard to predict what would happen if Alonso was in the Redbull with Max. i can predict that they probably would have wrapped up the manufacturers title by now (or as soon as is mathematically possible). and given equal treatment they would split WDC's between them over the course of more than one season. i dont see any driver on the grid (including Max) shutting out Alonso every year in a competitive car. hes too much of a ruthless competitor. i think Hamilton may split titles with Max too, and i doubt there are any others, unless its Lando.