2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[Darth-Piekus]

Dont count your chickens before they hatch. Lets wait and see the low DF set up they bring first and their top speeds before decide where they finish.

[mwillems]

I'm thinking we should be good for two top ten finishes at Monza, I won't be too upset if it isn't as competitive as other races have been.

I'm sure one lap pace will be better and we will then drop back in the race. But one thing we will be able to do, being faster in the corners than most cars and the two long straights both being DRS, we have a chance to utilise the slipstream and the DRS to help us not drop back too much. If everything goes smoothly it might not be too bad. But how often does it go smoothly lol

Agreed.
As you pointed out- Mclarens struggle to overtake at Zandvoort was due to them being weak following another car in the slow second sector.
As you have also mentioned- Monza is quite different, the corners leading up to the main overtaking point at turn 1 are high speed corners

ALSO, I haven’t heard/ seen much about this but now the fastest 5 teams on the grid are powered by Mercedes do the keyboard warriors still think the Merc is a bag of hit?

Not to mention the low speed corners are short and full rotation, exactly how this car needs to attack the corners to behave correctly, not too much penalty there.

We are just at risk of being sitting ducks on the straight and unlikely to be able to overtake anyone so if we have a mishap, we will struggle to make it up.

[Macklaren]

Not sure why there everyone is so downbeat about Monza. We should have lined up P2/P3 on the grid here at Zandvoort, were clearly the fastest car on track at some points during the race and apart from a strategy mistake with Lando and an ill-timed safety car for Oscar, we should have had both cars in the Top-4. Yes Lando was stuck behind Yuki but neither of the Mercs or Ferraris could pass either -- such was the nature of the track. Hopefully we have the low DF rear wing and hopefuly we dont try to set up for rain and we should be decent in Monza

[LionsHeart]

Not sure why there everyone is so downbeat about Monza. We should have lined up P2/P3 on the grid here at Zandvoort, were clearly the fastest car on track at some points during the race and apart from a strategy mistake with Lando and an ill-timed safety car for Oscar, we should have had both cars in the Top-4. Yes Lando was stuck behind Yuki but neither of the Mercs or Ferraris could pass either -- such was the nature of the track. Hopefully we have the low DF rear wing and hopefuly we dont try to set up for rain and we should be decent in Monza

I would like your optimism.

I would rather agree with mwillems, at least based on what we saw in the Spa and how we looked last year in Monza.

[Szabi1112]

Did we run the old spec rear wing?

[organic]

I'm thinking we should be good for two top ten finishes at Monza, I won't be too upset if it isn't as competitive as other races have been.

I'm sure one lap pace will be better and we will then drop back in the race. But one thing we will be able to do, being faster in the corners than most cars and the two long straights both being DRS, we have a chance to utilise the slipstream and the DRS to help us not drop back too much. If everything goes smoothly it might not be too bad. But how often does it go smoothly lol

Agreed.
As you pointed out- Mclarens struggle to overtake at Zandvoort was due to them being weak following another car in the slow second sector.
As you have also mentioned- Monza is quite different, the corners leading up to the main overtaking point at turn 1 are high speed corners

ALSO, I haven’t heard/ seen much about this but now the fastest 5 teams on the grid are powered by Mercedes do the keyboard warriors still think the Merc is a bag of hit?

Not to mention the low speed corners are short and full rotation, exactly how this car needs to attack the corners to behave correctly, not too much penalty there.

We are just at risk of being sitting ducks on the straight and unlikely to be able to overtake anyone so if we have a mishap, we will struggle to make it up.

Turn 1 is not short nor is it advantageous.. it's also a chicane which is the corner type where McLaren has been losing most in the races to others at Hungary, spa and Zandvoort

In qualifying trim these corners seemed to pose no issue but the chicane T10 caused Lando to be too far behind to overtake on the back straight every lap. At spa he had the chicane at the final corner. It seems to be a car characteristic in the race.

Did we run the old spec rear wing?

Yes McLaren used the old rear wing for Zandvoort quali/race. Reasoning is they didn't want to risk any more components after oscar damaged one set (knowing they want to use this wing at an upcoming race) and the weather forecast meant it wasn't such a loss.

[MCLvamos]

I hope we see some sort of upgrade package for Monza. The others are catching with development and now would be a perfect time for a floor/suspension update (what happened to that one meant for Hungary?!) or the like to bring 2 tenths and push us to the top of that chasing pack at a circuit that in theory shouldn't suit us. Either way, hoping for a better weekend than this one!

[FittingMechanics]

Not sure why there everyone is so downbeat about Monza. We should have lined up P2/P3 on the grid here at Zandvoort, were clearly the fastest car on track at some points during the race and apart from a strategy mistake with Lando and an ill-timed safety car for Oscar, we should have had both cars in the Top-4. Yes Lando was stuck behind Yuki but neither of the Mercs or Ferraris could pass either -- such was the nature of the track. Hopefully we have the low DF rear wing and hopefuly we dont try to set up for rain and we should be decent in Monza

Agreed. I do think we struggled somewhat with pace in the race - Lando was overtaken by Hamilton and couldn't keep up, it was not disastrous. I don't agree with Lando saying the pace was pretty terrible compared to Mercedes. It seems like a huge exaggeration.

Piastri's first true lap on softs on a dry track was his last Q3 run - where he was too cautious as he didn't have references for how quickly he can go. He could have easily been higher up at the start.
Lando was P2 with a bad lap.

So that leaves us with two cars in top 5 at the start, on a track that is not suited to the car. In the race we had strategy mishap which annulled it all (see Russell as well).

Hopefully they built a low drag rear wing for Monza and we can move forward.

[mwillems]

Agreed.
As you pointed out- Mclarens struggle to overtake at Zandvoort was due to them being weak following another car in the slow second sector.
As you have also mentioned- Monza is quite different, the corners leading up to the main overtaking point at turn 1 are high speed corners

ALSO, I haven’t heard/ seen much about this but now the fastest 5 teams on the grid are powered by Mercedes do the keyboard warriors still think the Merc is a bag of hit?

Not to mention the low speed corners are short and full rotation, exactly how this car needs to attack the corners to behave correctly, not too much penalty there.

We are just at risk of being sitting ducks on the straight and unlikely to be able to overtake anyone so if we have a mishap, we will struggle to make it up.

Turn 1 is not short nor is it advantageous.. it's also a chicane which is the corner type where McLaren has been losing most in the races to others at Hungary, spa and Zandvoort

In qualifying trim these corners seemed to pose no issue but the chicane T10 caused Lando to be too far behind to overtake on the back straight every lap. At spa he had the chicane at the final corner. It seems to be a car characteristic in the race.

Did we run the old spec rear wing?

Yes McLaren used the old rear wing for Zandvoort quali/race. Reasoning is they didn't want to risk any more components after oscar damaged one set (knowing they want to use this wing at an upcoming race) and the weather forecast meant it wasn't such a loss.

I think you've misread, there's nothing I said suggesting it was advantageous, I said it wasn't that bad for us, turn 1 and 2 can be driven each in a V profile closer to how the car likes.

Turn 1 is not a long corner as you don't even go 90 degrees as you briefly straighten to approach the second apex.

But we will see, I'm not so sure that this chicane will offer too much of an issue but I may find out I'm wrong on Sunday!

Something else to note, is Lando bluffing? From his language saying we'd be slow on the straights it was suggesting that nothing was coming at all at the rear, not even an evolution of the rear wing? Isn't this counter to what Stella seemed to suggest, that they will look at more trimming on the wing?

[CjC]

For me Lando talks very much in the ‘now’ and what I mean by ‘now’ is how he’s feeling at the time.
He’s feeling dejected after the race with a P7 when he was hoping for P2 knowing he had the pace for at least a P3 at Zandvoort so he’s lashing out somewhat and criticising the lack of straight line speed before he’s had his debrief with the team… he was over taking cars who had their DRS open as well as his own so the straight line speed wasn’t all that bad.

Look he might be right and there isn’t a Monza spec rear wing but that would be contrary to what Stella has said.

72 hours from now we’ll know who’s bluffing, who’s right, who’s wrong and if Chelsea are still in the EFL

[organic]

Everyone had 320-322 kph straight-line speed in qualifying apart from RB/Ferrari who had more (327 / 329 respectively)

Straight-line speed wasn't an issue at Zandvoort. It was slow through the chicane that meant they were often too far back to be close enough into the overtaking zones to make moves. Other cars with same top speed like Hamilton and Alonso could more easily make moves on others as they were not as slow through the chicane

Just wanted to dispel that idea that straight-line speed was a particular weakness at Zandvoort

[MCLvamos]

Everyone had 320-322 kph straight-line speed in qualifying apart from RB/Ferrari who had more (327 / 329 respectively)

Straight-line speed wasn't an issue at Zandvoort. It was slow through the chicane that meant they were often too far back to be close enough into the overtaking zones to make moves. Other cars with same top speed like Hamilton and Alonso could more easily make moves on others as they were not as slow through the chicane

Just wanted to dispel that idea that straight-line speed was a particular weakness at Zandvoort

True, but we were on the slower side in a straight line and I agree even with the new wing they would've have the same issues in the chicane, but Friday at least suggested it would give them more of a change to get further alongside for a move into turn 1. So that may have helped. It was at least 4-5 times that Norris got nearly alongside Tsunoda but lacked that extra car length alongside to make a move stick. Anyway, hopefully what you discussed is a sign that the rest of the chassis is pretty efficient, and we need to bring an efficient low DF to Monza and we'll be alright (except for the slow corners)

[MCLvamos]

The pace wasn't bad even with the compromise due to traffic and the skewed picture due to skating around in the slicks in the rain for a lap or two when other's weren't. I think the rain robbed us of a great three way fight between Russell Norris and Alonso, and I believe the pace differential would have been very small. Anyway, let's hope for a more clean (although possibly tough still) weekend at Monza!

[LionsHeart]

Everyone had 320-322 kph straight-line speed in qualifying apart from RB/Ferrari who had more (327 / 329 respectively)

Straight-line speed wasn't an issue at Zandvoort. It was slow through the chicane that meant they were often too far back to be close enough into the overtaking zones to make moves. Other cars with same top speed like Hamilton and Alonso could more easily make moves on others as they were not as slow through the chicane

Just wanted to dispel that idea that straight-line speed was a particular weakness at Zandvoort

I think it’s even worth mentioning here not the total maximum speed at the end of the straights, but the speed that the car develops already at the beginning of the straight after exiting the last turn. Lando lacked speed, because he lost several tenths at once in slow corners and did not have time to compensate for this in the third sector.

[PikeStance]

Lando’s optimism from Friday night faded fast.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/norri ... /10512867/

Also he’s fearing a bad weekend at Monza

Norris admitted that next weekend’s race at Monza could be tough for the team, with Spa having highlighted the straightline speed weakness of the MCL60.

“I think like Andrea [Stella] said there's been so much focus on trying to get the car we have now, which is the completely correct decision to have done," he said. "So much focus and time spent on creating this, there are some things we're quite far behind on.

“But I'd happily take 80% good races and 20% bad rather than vice versa. We know it, I think we admit it, which is always a good thing. We know we're probably in for a pretty tough race.

“I doubt the weather is going to be as helpful. Maybe it is, but straights are still our weakness at the minute, and we'll see what we can come up with."

This Lando being Lando. I looked up the word, pessimist in the "pictionary" and there was Lando.

What I gather Spa was the result of poor optimization and prioritization. Despite that, we finished 2nd in the Sprint and 7th in the race. LOL, the more pessimistic Lando is, the more optimistic I become.