2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[bauc]

I watched the hole race on Sunday on mute as my son was sleeping next to me, so I did not hear what Lando was saying on the radio when it started to rain after the start of the race. Did he decided to stay out, or did the team told him to stay out? I was a HUGE mistake, HUGEEEE - It cost us an easy podium, easy! (Ok ok, it was a crazy race, anything could have happened but still...)

I don't think anyone answered you. The team believed the rain would be light and quick to pass. They wanted to stay out with both cars (like Piastri managed) but Lando felt it was raining too heavily and thought the track will not dry up fast (he was wrong as it was faster on slicks by lap . He forced the issue on lap 3 and pit. This is probably second worst possible outcome as only thing worse is pitting on lap 4. Best obviously would be pit on lap 1 but that was no longer an option.

Thank you! And yes, no one did answer it before

[mwillems]

I watched the hole race on Sunday on mute as my son was sleeping next to me, so I did not hear what Lando was saying on the radio when it started to rain after the start of the race. Did he decided to stay out, or did the team told him to stay out? I was a HUGE mistake, HUGEEEE - It cost us an easy podium, easy! (Ok ok, it was a crazy race, anything could have happened but still...)

I don't think anyone answered you. The team believed the rain would be light and quick to pass. They wanted to stay out with both cars (like Piastri managed) but Lando felt it was raining too heavily and thought the track will not dry up fast (he was wrong as it was faster on slicks by lap . He forced the issue on lap 3 and pit. This is probably second worst possible outcome as only thing worse is pitting on lap 4. Best obviously would be pit on lap 1 but that was no longer an option.

Before we fully turn our attention to Monza -- I think there is an issue that is going unnoticed. i was reviewing Zandvoort -- and should we conclude that Lando is not very good at assessing rain conditions? He is obviously phenomenal at driving in the rain...but after Russia 2021 and now here, he's chosen to stay out instead of coming in despite obviously terrible conditions. He has stayed out for many laps after conditions have clearly become untenable for slicks. Now the team has a lot more data than he does and still could not make the right decision but ultimately the final call comes down to the driver in the conditions. Maybe this will come with experience and why master like HAM and ALO are as good as they are...

I understand that hindsight is 20/20 but still....

In Sochi - it was a very difficult decision to decide to pit and lose the lead of the race. I don't think you can blame him for that. Hamilton did not pit in Hungary that time it was bone dry and I don't think we would say he is bad at judging the conditions. In Sochi, Hamilton was probably on a "do whatever Lando doesn't" instruction as he was more then a pit ahead of P3. This allowed Hamilton to gamble and go on inters. Half a lap later, Lando was well behind Hamilton if he pits which forced the team to try and brave it out as they would lose P1 if they pitted and there were opportunities to keep P1. For example any crash would be a SC and a probable red flag with Lando in the lead. It is a miracle no one crashed at that time.

That being said, I do think Lando needs to take a step back and trust the team more. In this situation, by lap 3 it was too late to pit and he shouldn't have forced the issue.

This video sums it up well (might not show up but it's the 10 Minutes of Zandvoort video from F1). Both the drivers did absolutely nothing wrong, and gave good feedback on the conditions. Yet again, the McLaren strategy team bottled it with vague, indecisive communication and decisions, topped off with the bizarre call on lap 3 to Lando that makes you wonder what race they're even watching. In fact, It was Lando that semi-rescued his race by overruling the team and boxing.

Lando did not semi rescue his race as Piastri ended up ahead of Lando by the time Lando switched back to softs. So the strategy Piastri was on was superior to pitting on lap 3 which is what Lando did. Lando would have been better off staying after lap 3, suffer a couple more laps but wouldn't lose 40s due to pitstops to inters and back to softs.

Piastri ended up behind Lando because he flat spotted his tyres trying to overtake Magnussen on lap 15, only to have safety car in lap 16.

Agreed, I also think he would have been better to stay out. The gap between Inters and Slicks was decreasing at some speed after lap 3 and was not 2 pitstops of time.

But it is worth noting that Piastri was almost a stop down at that point. It is hard to tell how long he could have stayed out if he didn't flat spot.

But the difference wasn't huge and the team should have pitted Lando with everyone else to preserve position, they were never going to finish ahead of Max. They got a little greedy and tried to get one over everyone instead of protecting the race and trusting Landos driving. As it was, Landos driving in the wet was not good even with the bigger wing.

There were no winners from this one.

[FittingMechanics]

Agreed, I also think he would have been better to stay out. The gap between Inters and Slicks was decreasing at some speed after lap 3 and was not 2 pitstops of time.

But it is worth noting that Piastri was almost a stop down at that point. It is hard to tell how long he could have stayed out if he didn't flat spot.

But the difference wasn't huge and the team should have pitted Lando with everyone else to preserve position, they were never going to finish ahead of Max. They got a little greedy and tried to get one over everyone instead of protecting the race and trusting Landos driving. As it was, Landos driving in the wet was not good even with the bigger wing.

There were no winners from this one.

It was a definite mistake (not pitting on lap 1 or 2).
It was probably a mistake to pit on lap 3 but it's not straightforward. Piastri managed to claw back time because there was another rain cloud coming in so all the drivers on inters were waiting for the next rain before they pit which led to them staying on track when softs became faster. By the time that second cloud arrived Piastri managed to claw back some time and it wasn't as catastrophic as it was on lap 4-5.

As you say, I am surprised as well that Lando seemed to struggle in the rain, both Alonso and Russel managed to overtake him when both were on softs. With high downforce I'd expect McLaren to do well in those conditions.

[MCLvamos]

Are any upgrades expected for Monza? Judging by the rate of development over the course of the season so far, we are probably due a floor/sidepod evolution in the next couple races. I've heard vague news on this, but is it looking more like Singapore than Monza?

[mwillems]

Are any upgrades expected for Monza? Judging by the rate of development over the course of the season so far, we are probably due a floor/sidepod evolution in the next couple races. I've heard vague news on this, but is it looking more like Singapore than Monza?

It has been much the subject of discussion in here if they will bring a new or evolved RW. No one knows the answer, but we are eagerly awaiting!

Not aware of anything else that might come. Next big upgrade AFAIK is the sidepod and floor, which if you were to guess, would come on or after Singapore, although looking at dates, Singapore looks a bit optimistic.

[mwillems]

Agreed, I also think he would have been better to stay out. The gap between Inters and Slicks was decreasing at some speed after lap 3 and was not 2 pitstops of time.

But it is worth noting that Piastri was almost a stop down at that point. It is hard to tell how long he could have stayed out if he didn't flat spot.

But the difference wasn't huge and the team should have pitted Lando with everyone else to preserve position, they were never going to finish ahead of Max. They got a little greedy and tried to get one over everyone instead of protecting the race and trusting Landos driving. As it was, Landos driving in the wet was not good even with the bigger wing.

There were no winners from this one.

It was a definite mistake (not pitting on lap 1 or 2).
It was probably a mistake to pit on lap 3 but it's not straightforward. Piastri managed to claw back time because there was another rain cloud coming in so all the drivers on inters were waiting for the next rain before they pit which led to them staying on track when softs became faster. By the time that second cloud arrived Piastri managed to claw back some time and it wasn't as catastrophic as it was on lap 4-5.

As you say, I am surprised as well that Lando seemed to struggle in the rain, both Alonso and Russel managed to overtake him when both were on softs. With high downforce I'd expect McLaren to do well in those conditions.

Yeah. If it is so unkown, just stay in line with everyone else, why roll the dice for a massive win or massive loss when you have no control or understanding of how to get to the outcome. The fact they didn't understand what the weather was doing is why they should have just covered it off, it was clear from the activity in the pits that everyone was coming in Lap 2, they just chose to be different.

There's a question to ask around how they were assessing the situation, because whilst Lando was being overtaken he was getting a radio call saying he was faster than the inters! lol It is possible that they meant "faster over the course of the switch to inters and back to slicks" but they weren't clear with Lando and this was the next mistake. A shambles really and his response was appriopriate.

[CjC]

Are any upgrades expected for Monza? Judging by the rate of development over the course of the season so far, we are probably due a floor/sidepod evolution in the next couple races. I've heard vague news on this, but is it looking more like Singapore than Monza?

Frustratingly, we had a contributor who was able to give us a heads up about up and coming upgrades but was shouted down by another contributor (who rarely contributes to this thread themselves) so they now keep their insider knowledge to themselves.

[PikeStance]

Perez was the only one in the top 10 to pit, most of the bottom ten pitted after one lap. Max and Alonso pitted at the end of lap 2. Perez was already 7 seconds faster in one sector. By lap 2 the track was already wet.

Bottomline, they made the wrong call. best to learn and move on from it.

[FittingMechanics]

Are any upgrades expected for Monza? Judging by the rate of development over the course of the season so far, we are probably due a floor/sidepod evolution in the next couple races. I've heard vague news on this, but is it looking more like Singapore than Monza?

Frustratingly, we had a contributor who was able to give us a heads up about up and coming upgrades but was shouted down by another contributor (who rarely contributes to this thread themselves) so they now keep their insider knowledge to themselves.

I'm sceptical that contributor had real insider knowledge but a shame they no longer post here.

Perez was the only one in the top 10 to pit, most of the bottom ten pitted after one lap. Max and Alonso pitted at the end of lap 2. Perez was already 7 seconds faster in one sector. By lap 2 the track was already wet.

Bottomline, they made the wrong call. best to learn and move on from it.

They need to improve their processes or software to be able to notice these huge deltas immediately, if Perez is 20 seconds a lap faster you need to pit immediately, the track will not dry off in two laps.

[mclaren111]

Are any upgrades expected for Monza? Judging by the rate of development over the course of the season so far, we are probably due a floor/sidepod evolution in the next couple races. I've heard vague news on this, but is it looking more like Singapore than Monza?

Frustratingly, we had a contributor who was able to give us a heads up about up and coming upgrades but was shouted down by another contributor (who rarely contributes to this thread themselves) so they now keep their insider knowledge to themselves.

I really miss PhillipM...

[djos]

Are any upgrades expected for Monza? Judging by the rate of development over the course of the season so far, we are probably due a floor/sidepod evolution in the next couple races. I've heard vague news on this, but is it looking more like Singapore than Monza?

Frustratingly, we had a contributor who was able to give us a heads up about up and coming upgrades but was shouted down by another contributor (who rarely contributes to this thread themselves) so they now keep their insider knowledge to themselves.

I really miss PhillipM...

He’s a good bloke, the folk who attacked him were just jealous of him.

[mwillems]

Are any upgrades expected for Monza? Judging by the rate of development over the course of the season so far, we are probably due a floor/sidepod evolution in the next couple races. I've heard vague news on this, but is it looking more like Singapore than Monza?

Frustratingly, we had a contributor who was able to give us a heads up about up and coming upgrades but was shouted down by another contributor (who rarely contributes to this thread themselves) so they now keep their insider knowledge to themselves.

I'm sceptical that contributor had real insider knowledge but a shame they no longer post here.

Perez was the only one in the top 10 to pit, most of the bottom ten pitted after one lap. Max and Alonso pitted at the end of lap 2. Perez was already 7 seconds faster in one sector. By lap 2 the track was already wet.

Bottomline, they made the wrong call. best to learn and move on from it.

They need to improve their processes or software to be able to notice these huge deltas immediately, if Perez is 20 seconds a lap faster you need to pit immediately, the track will not dry off in two laps.

I don't doubt there was insider knowledge, but whether it came to pass or be accurate was a bit hit and miss, it was always interesting to see what was said and like all insider leaks, you have to take it with a pinch of salt. Some things pivot, some things are outdated and some things can be misheard further down the line.

[Ground Effect]

Are any upgrades expected for Monza? Judging by the rate of development over the course of the season so far, we are probably due a floor/sidepod evolution in the next couple races. I've heard vague news on this, but is it looking more like Singapore than Monza?

Frustratingly, we had a contributor who was able to give us a heads up about up and coming upgrades but was shouted down by another contributor (who rarely contributes to this thread themselves) so they now keep their insider knowledge to themselves.

I'm sceptical that contributor had real insider knowledge but a shame they no longer post here.

Perez was the only one in the top 10 to pit, most of the bottom ten pitted after one lap. Max and Alonso pitted at the end of lap 2. Perez was already 7 seconds faster in one sector. By lap 2 the track was already wet.

Bottomline, they made the wrong call. best to learn and move on from it.

They need to improve their processes or software to be able to notice these huge deltas immediately, if Perez is 20 seconds a lap faster you need to pit immediately, the track will not dry off in two laps.

PhilipM was definitely legitimate, he's been ahead of the curve very often. He always made it clear that the people he was speaking to weren't aero guys or engineers. I think they were in manufacturing, so they only knew of updates once they moved to manufacturing. I don't bookmark stuff unfortunately, but he was the first source to
say that the MCL60 had issues and would be underwhelming.

[CjC]

Perez was the only one in the top 10 to pit, most of the bottom ten pitted after one lap. Max and Alonso pitted at the end of lap 2. Perez was already 7 seconds faster in one sector. By lap 2 the track was already wet.

Bottomline, they made the wrong call. best to learn and move on from it.

I worked out that Lando lost about 24 seconds to Alonso by putting a lap later than him, which is utter madness really.
Even Oscars strategy was totally wrong.

When the track is going from wet to dry there shouldn’t be any gambling, the inter is the right call.
The team seem to miss the fact that even though it’s stopped raining or it’s just a short shower the track is still wet and will take a few laps (40, 50, 60 seconds of tyre delta) to dry for slicks.
I still can’t believe their decision.

Inters to dry tyres is a fruitful gamble

[LionsHeart]

Very interesting:

The International Automobile Federation FIA announced the tightening of technical regulations in the field of control over the flexibility of the aerodynamic elements of the car. The new technical directive, which has come into the possession of the Motorsport editors, has been sent to the Formula 1 teams ahead of the Dutch Grand Prix, notifying them that the stricter regulation requirements will come into force with the Singapore Grand Prix.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-te ... /10513290/

Which teams will suffer the most?