Mercedes W14

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
User avatar
SiLo
138
Joined: 25 Jul 2010, 19:09

Re: Mercedes W14

Post

mwillems wrote:
31 Aug 2023, 17:12
Hamilton ran this in Spa and was one of the fastest non-DRS cars down the straights all weekend. I think they will be ok.
Felipe Baby!

User avatar
mwillems
44
Joined: 04 Sep 2016, 22:11

Re: Mercedes W14

Post

SiLo wrote:
01 Sep 2023, 11:22
mwillems wrote:
31 Aug 2023, 17:12
Hamilton ran this in Spa and was one of the fastest non-DRS cars down the straights all weekend. I think they will be ok.
I'm sure it will, it was to illustrate the difference in drag reduction requirements between the Zero Pod and today. It is night and day and this picture couldn't make it more clear, visually.

Many of the wings are less extreme this year as they have become more efficient across the package.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

User avatar
organic
1055
Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: Mercedes W14

Post


r85
r85
0
Joined: 26 Feb 2023, 17:20
Location: Munich, DE

Re: Mercedes W14

Post

organic wrote:
01 Sep 2023, 12:30
Didn't see this in Mercedes' upgrades document. The winglets on the SIS structure were removed in Spa, put back on in Zandvoort and are removed again for Monza. Those changes weren't on the documents either even if they're small/circuit specific.

User avatar
organic
1055
Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: Mercedes W14

Post

Yea it's likely they've run these winglets elsewhere (possibly in preseason testing or something) so they don't need to be declared now

Ozan
Ozan
10
Joined: 05 Jan 2012, 01:50

Re: Mercedes W14

Post

However Toto Wolff admitted the W14 is “just too draggy for this kind of high-speed race track” which cost them time on the straights.

“When you look at the top speeds, I’ve just looked at the sheet, we’re bottom-end pretty much everywhere. But you can still be high drag and not fast on the straight and still put out a good lap time. But overall generally I think we have been too draggy for Monza, definitely.”
with a small rear wing and single beam wing, how can this car still be draggy I fail to understand.

Farnborough
Farnborough
102
Joined: 18 Mar 2023, 14:15

Re: Mercedes W14

Post

Ozan wrote:
02 Sep 2023, 22:39
However Toto Wolff admitted the W14 is “just too draggy for this kind of high-speed race track” which cost them time on the straights.

“When you look at the top speeds, I’ve just looked at the sheet, we’re bottom-end pretty much everywhere. But you can still be high drag and not fast on the straight and still put out a good lap time. But overall generally I think we have been too draggy for Monza, definitely.”
with a small rear wing and single beam wing, how can this car still be draggy I fail to understand.
If they can't switch the accumulation curve off from floor and diffuser it will always pay a drag penalty as speed elevates. One of the characteristics of this MB platform right from gestation.

K1Plus
K1Plus
1
Joined: 05 Jul 2022, 18:15

Re: Mercedes W14

Post

Farnborough wrote:
02 Sep 2023, 22:51
Ozan wrote:
02 Sep 2023, 22:39
However Toto Wolff admitted the W14 is “just too draggy for this kind of high-speed race track” which cost them time on the straights.

“When you look at the top speeds, I’ve just looked at the sheet, we’re bottom-end pretty much everywhere. But you can still be high drag and not fast on the straight and still put out a good lap time. But overall generally I think we have been too draggy for Monza, definitely.”
with a small rear wing and single beam wing, how can this car still be draggy I fail to understand.
If they can't switch the accumulation curve off from floor and diffuser it will always pay a drag penalty as speed elevates. One of the characteristics of this MB platform right from gestation.
So essentially for NextYear the chassis/monocoque has to be redesigned to allow for the downwash concept to be fully exploited. This is currently a Frankenstein car, downwash trying to be placed onto a Zeropod chassis.

Farnborough
Farnborough
102
Joined: 18 Mar 2023, 14:15

Re: Mercedes W14

Post

The "holy grail" of ground effect floor is mitigation when its not needed to keep from accumulating more and more load, unsure if many of the teams are fully on top of this.

Think it's fair to say that W13 concept was most diametrically opposed to the performance leader in this aspect. Unusual that this was carried forward to 14 iteration, but watching that realisation through early stages of 23 season has now progressed into clear path of action.

I felt the Monaco upgrade pack offered a lot, and thought they should take that risk as soon as possible too. It can be seen looking at it now just how long it takes to fully absorb such a change when used in track operations, with much clearer picture of it's performance relative to competitors now quantified. A very useful step in development nevertheless.

Earlier in pictures of detail W14 showed just how interesting some of the elements are in coming to this chassis on arrival at Monza, with clearer path of feeding the direction the technical team wish to follow. They also note a definite list of items they now feel that present very obvious limitations from being moved out of chassis architecture, no doubt be designed out from W15 concept as we speak.

User avatar
vorticism
323
Joined: 01 Mar 2022, 20:20

Re: Mercedes W14

Post

Image
Erik Junius
motorsport.com

Image

Cockpit fins.
motorsport.com
𓄀

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: Mercedes W14

Post

Similar to Alpine.
A lion must kill its prey.

User avatar
organic
1055
Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: Mercedes W14

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
11 Sep 2023, 19:48
Similar to Alpine.
I think the w13 was the first to have them

Image

Ozan
Ozan
10
Joined: 05 Jan 2012, 01:50

Re: Mercedes W14

Post

why is it pointing inwards and not outwards ?

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
593
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Mercedes W14

Post

Ozan wrote:
12 Sep 2023, 12:43
why is it pointing inwards and not outwards ?
To set up the direction of rotation of the vortex it is designed to create (it's not "a deflector" as some have labelled it elsewhere). Vortices are useful in creating downwash so having the downward-rotating side where you want it can be important.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

BlueCheetah66
BlueCheetah66
33
Joined: 13 Jul 2021, 20:23

Re: Mercedes W14

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
12 Sep 2023, 13:23
Ozan wrote:
12 Sep 2023, 12:43
why is it pointing inwards and not outwards ?
To set up the direction of rotation of the vortex it is designed to create (it's not "a deflector" as some have labelled it elsewhere). Vortices are useful in creating downwash so having the downward-rotating side where you want it can be important.
I believe it is also useful to reduce the losses from the cockpit. You can see a similar feature on most teams mirror struts with them in-washing right next to the cockpit