Nothing is over, yet?

[timbo]

Fota had the option not to sign. That is different. The five had allready signed up when the table was turned on them by the FOTA ähm..forcefull argument, to name it politely. Some would perhaps use stronger language.

So what? FIA agreed on their terms and issued a statement on that. Or you would argue that WMSC decision really meant nothing?

[WhiteBlue]

The FIA said at the time that the rules for 2010 onwards would be the 2009 regulations "as well as further regulations agreed prior to 29 April 2009."

That was FIA's position.
Not something that only FOTA said.
Moreover, ain't published entry list mean that every name on the said list is entrant? ...

But the FiA said nothing about the way those regulations would be implemented because they did not know. The point is that FOTA never specified their replacement for the budget cap, how to get back to 1990ties spending.

We obviously do have a disagreement of opinon here and is does not seem to about fact. So I suggest we keep our opinions and try not to reconsile them. It may simply be impossible.

[timbo]

You can stick to FIA's side or FOTA's, but I believe you can "set the record straight". Either FOTA teams are 2010 participants by now (according to WMSC decision) or not.

[WhiteBlue]

No further comment at this time.

[jddh1]

No further comment at this time.

Yeah, I can't say much at this point either. I really just wanna wait and see what the team leaders say this weekend.

But, still, I think it's time for both Max and Bernie to go. I'm just gonna throw that out there. I've been saying it since 2002-2003 and this year's events enforce that notion.

[jon-mullen]

Check it out, somebody's already trying to make money on the dispute. Get 'em while they're hot!

[Michiba]

This is a bit left field, but could this all just be a strategic move by FOTA against Max renegging on his promise to leave?

[gibells]

Quote from another post:

According to company records Williams spent 4,882 million pounds in 1985.
15,335 in 1990, 36,311 in 1995, 66,051 in 2000 and 83,728 in 2005.
For McLaren the numbers are: 13,320 in 1985. 22,417 in 1990, 48,427 in 1995,
69,274 in 2000 and 113,285 in 2005.

I expect this is why the FIA and the 5 small teams are trying to tie down FOTA. McLaren were spending £48M in '95. I'm not sure what this equates to in today's money, but it's a lot more than 45M Euros.

All the while the planning for the breakaway series keeps moving slowly, and CVC's investment shareholders get more and more nervous. How long will they wait before they sever ties with BE and back FOTA?

[ISLAMATRON]

Quote from another post:

According to company records Williams spent 4,882 million pounds in 1985.
15,335 in 1990, 36,311 in 1995, 66,051 in 2000 and 83,728 in 2005.
For McLaren the numbers are: 13,320 in 1985. 22,417 in 1990, 48,427 in 1995,
69,274 in 2000 and 113,285 in 2005.

I expect this is why the FIA and the 5 small teams are trying to tie down FOTA. McLaren were spending £48M in '95. I'm not sure what this equates to in today's money, but it's a lot more than 45M Euros.

All the while the planning for the breakaway series keeps moving slowly, and CVC's investment shareholders get more and more nervous. How long will they wait before they sever ties with BE and back FOTA?

Please people, keep all these numbers in proper context... those '95 numbers you quote are all inclusive, while the 45M Euro would not include the drivers salaries, engine costs or hospitality/marketing... so no they are still not comparible, the teams would still be spending alot more under the dead cap of 2010

[gcdugas]

The FOTA teams use the term "resource limitation" for a reason. They are OK with using a set amount of gearboxes per season, a certain amount of engines etc. What the teams will NEVER agree to is anything that involves audits. Who would ever trust Max Mosley, of his politically established puppet successor to look at their books. Confidentiality? Forget it. Secret vendor relationships for secretly proprietary technology remaining a secret? Laughable. Wildly open accusation that are impossible to defend against? Leaked info to media puppets... The whole thing is a massive power grab masquerading as "concern for the long term future of the sport". So it doesn't matter if the cap is $900M or $50M, the teams need to keep their books private and that is the way it should be.

[Richard]

The FOTA teams use the term "resource limitation" for a reason. They are OK with using a set amount of gearboxes per season, a certain amount of engines etc.

Using resource based rules also avoids problems with currency fluctuations, different taxation systems, and cost of living in different countries.

Admin is also easier:
- Engine limitation - count to 8
- Refuelling ban - count to zero
- Testing ban - count to zero
- 60% scale wind tunnel tests - use a ruler

Compare this to the legion of FIA accountants required for a cash limited system. Also the teams would have to employ an army of accountants to prepare submissions for the FIA audit... and then fight any disputes.

[ISLAMATRON]

then all you get is the 8 most expensive engines in the history of F1

[jddh1]

then all you get is the 8 most expensive engines in the history of F1

No you won't.

Teams also want to stop using exotic materials in engines. So that makes them cheaper to build and that helps them run longer saving more costs.

[ISLAMATRON]

and that is why Ferrari spent over $50 mil on "frozen" engines in 2007 right... teams with a financial advantage will always use it, and with todays closed regs it overpowers the creativity of other teams with less money.. that is what we have seen over the last couple years even with the present cost restrictions... there needs to be a hard budget cap and open regs for any creativity to truely come back into F1. The teams dont have any state secrets to hide as gcdugas may suggest, they just want to keep the financial advantage that they have... we see with their wish to maintain the closed regs of 2009 indefinitely that they dont give a flying --- about technical innovation or the "DNA of F1"

"Resource limitation" is bullshit... we have seen absolutely no type of financial prudence on the part of the major teams, that is except for HONDA... even with today's economic recession, if the Max offered to unfreeze the engines the major teams would jump at it and spend huge amounts of money for minimal returns, much more money than what they spent on KERS.

[donskar]

Check it out, somebody's already trying to make money on the dispute. Get 'em while they're hot!

I wonder, does Bernie own this T-shirt company? Nah, couldn't be . . . Could it?