2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[dialtone]

You folks are talking about Mercedes starting 2nd and 5th in 2019 and finishing 4th and 5th in the same guise as missing q3.

Also talking about Max being ‘beat in hungary’ where he started 2nd by 0.003s and dominated the race…

Are we seeing the same races?

[Silent Storm]

Jonathan Wheatley is the boss
Pulled Max out of 3 incidents, 1 of which was clear penalty. Really the most underrated employee of redbull.
If I ever end up in court I need this guy as my lawyer.

He is damn good!

WONder if he was responsible for the "Any, not all" in 2021.

He was, that's where I noticed him first and his contribution to the team.
Mercedes sent 5-6 lawyer and some more people from the team while Redbull sent just Wheatley.

[scuderiabrandon]

Jonathan Wheatley is the boss
Pulled Max out of 3 incidents, 1 of which was clear penalty. Really the most underrated employee of redbull.
If I ever end up in court I need this guy as my lawyer.

He is damn good!

WONder if he was responsible for the "Any, not all" in 2021.

He was, that's where I noticed him first and his contribution to the team.
Mercedes sent 5-6 lawyer and some more people from the team while Redbull sent just Wheatley.

No one from AT showing up to argue their case definitely had nothing to do with it.

[Spacepace]

He is damn good!

WONder if he was responsible for the "Any, not all" in 2021.

He was, that's where I noticed him first and his contribution to the team.
Mercedes sent 5-6 lawyer and some more people from the team while Redbull sent just Wheatley.

No one from AT showing up to argue their case definitely had nothing to do with it.

That's why I think Red Bull shouldn't be allowed to have two teams. They act as road blocks in close championships and disappear around Red Bull cars. 2012 Brazil

[ME4ME]

The FIA said no AlphaTauri representative attended the hearing. It appears that the stewards did not formally invite an AlphaTauri representative to the hearing, as per normal procedure.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vers ... /10521252/

Thats on the FIA.

[Just_a_fan]

The FIA said no AlphaTauri representative attended the hearing. It appears that the stewards did not formally invite an AlphaTauri representative to the hearing, as per normal procedure.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vers ... /10521252/

Thats on the FIA.

FIA officials not following their own rules. Well, who'd thunk it?

[scuderiabrandon]

The FIA said no AlphaTauri representative attended the hearing. It appears that the stewards did not formally invite an AlphaTauri representative to the hearing, as per normal procedure.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vers ... /10521252/

Thats on the FIA.

That must be the first time ever. It is standard procedure for how many years now. I don't buy that for a single second. Also coincidentally the teams with the same owners. AT were instructed not to attend the hearing. Simple as.

If that was truely the case you reschedule and give the team who were on the receiving end a fair chance to defend their case. The victim can't be punished for the organizers negligence. Even then if AT were quick enough this weekend to race RB they wouldn't be allowed.

Bad look for the FIA and Red Bull. Instead of giving a deserved penalty (I doubt anyone would argue that) they just inspire more conspiracies. Verstappen vocally took accountability and was still laid off.

Not to mention the FIA, gave identical reasoning to the Leclerc/Monaco incident but came to different conclusions. Mak it make sense.

[AR3-GP]

The FIA said no AlphaTauri representative attended the hearing. It appears that the stewards did not formally invite an AlphaTauri representative to the hearing, as per normal procedure.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vers ... /10521252/

Thats on the FIA.

That must be the first time ever. It is standard procedure for how many years now. I don't buy that for a single second. Also coincidentally the teams with the same owners. AT were instructed not to attend the hearing. Simple as.

If that was truely the case you reschedule and give the team who were on the receiving end a fair chance to defend their case. The victim can't be punished for the organizers negligence. Even then if AT were quick enough this weekend to race RB they wouldn't be allowed.

Bad look for the FIA and Red Bull. Instead of giving a deserved penalty (I doubt anyone would argue that) they just inspire more conspiracies. Verstappen vocally took accountability and was still laid off.

Not to mention the FIA, gave identical reasoning to the Leclerc/Monaco incident but came to different conclusions. Mak it make sense.

As was mentioned in the report, they used precedent. Sainz and Russell have been involved in several impeding incidents with no penalty. Sainz was a menace earlier this year. Russell actually drove into the side of another car. No penalties. Rb was treated the same way.

You can love or hate that the FIA don’t take impeding seriously, but by and large there have been multiple other incidents which did not get punished.

And we could address the illegal defending and illegal overtaking in the last race as well but we were in Monza.

The stewarding has been lenient but it’s not just Rb who have been treated with leniency.

[Paa]

It could be tyre temp related. I did not have live timing to confirm, but it seemed that Max was visibly more aggressive with his outlaps. Even warming up the tyres into the last corner. Also usually S3 was his best sector compared to others, while other teams usually overheated their tyres by S3.
Also Max set his only competitive time in Q1 when he went out-hot-cold-hot laps. Car looked ok on the second hot lap.
I just don't understand why didn't they try two outlaps if really this was the issue.

[AR3-GP]

It could be tyre temp related. I did not have live timing to confirm, but it seemed that Max was visibly more aggressive with his outlaps. Even warming up the tyres into the last corner. Also usually S3 was his best sector compared to others, while other teams usually overheated their tyres by S3.
Also Max set his only competitive time in Q1 when he went out-hot-cold-hot laps. Car looked ok on the second hot lap.
I just don't understand why didn't they try two outlaps if really this was the issue.

I also noted that on Q1. Max looked more comfortable by far on the second run on used softs. And then RB never used that strat again.

Horner said more in another interview that it’s the tires. Perez said it too. Tires not in the window. Car is useless even more so than expected.

[Silent Storm]

He is damn good!

WONder if he was responsible for the "Any, not all" in 2021.

He was, that's where I noticed him first and his contribution to the team.
Mercedes sent 5-6 lawyer and some more people from the team while Redbull sent just Wheatley.

No one from AT showing up to argue their case definitely had nothing to do with it.

No one from Aston Martin showed up either against Williams.

[LM10]

It could be tyre temp related. I did not have live timing to confirm, but it seemed that Max was visibly more aggressive with his outlaps. Even warming up the tyres into the last corner. Also usually S3 was his best sector compared to others, while other teams usually overheated their tyres by S3.
Also Max set his only competitive time in Q1 when he went out-hot-cold-hot laps. Car looked ok on the second hot lap.
I just don't understand why didn't they try two outlaps if really this was the issue.

I also noted that on Q1. Max looked more comfortable by far on the second run on used softs. And then RB never used that strat again.

Horner said more in another interview that it’s the tires. Perez said it too. Tires not in the window. Car is useless even more so than expected.

Well, a car which is all over the place will have difficulties warming up the tires/keeping the tires in their window.

RedBull has not a single time had balance issues when it mattered this season.
Since yesterday both drivers and especially Max (the one who usually is on rails with his car out of the box) have had problems from the start and they couldn’t manage to solve them. In the end Max ended qualifying 1.2 seconds off the pole time. That’s shocking to say the least.

A team which have shown sublime performances across all types of tracks (Monaco and Baku included as examples of street circuits), all of a sudden forgot how to setup the car or make the tires work? I don’t know…

[AR3-GP]

It could be tyre temp related. I did not have live timing to confirm, but it seemed that Max was visibly more aggressive with his outlaps. Even warming up the tyres into the last corner. Also usually S3 was his best sector compared to others, while other teams usually overheated their tyres by S3.
Also Max set his only competitive time in Q1 when he went out-hot-cold-hot laps. Car looked ok on the second hot lap.
I just don't understand why didn't they try two outlaps if really this was the issue.

I also noted that on Q1. Max looked more comfortable by far on the second run on used softs. And then RB never used that strat again.

Horner said more in another interview that it’s the tires. Perez said it too. Tires not in the window. Car is useless even more so than expected.

Well, a car which is all over the place will have difficulties warming up the tires/keeping the tires in their window.

RedBull has not a single time had balance issues when it mattered this season.
Since yesterday both drivers and especially Max (the one who usually is on rails with his car out of the box) have had problems from the start and they couldn’t manage to solve them. In the end Max ended qualifying 1.2 seconds off the pole time. That’s shocking to say the least.

A team which have shown sublime performances across all types of tracks (Monaco and Baku included as examples of street circuits), all of a sudden forgot how to setup the car or make the tires work? I don’t know…

We did observe the fluctuations in Red Bull's performance previously. It's just that they were still out of reach of the opposition. RB had tire warming problems in Canada, Spa, and Zandvoort for those who follow the radio and don't just think "dominant car, everything is easy" when they win.

They already predicted this would be a horrible track for them and they still managed to find a decent setup in FP3 in addition to Perez have a very strong race run on Friday. Then for completely irrational, and imo irresponsible reasons most likely motivated by Verstappen himself, they made unproven and untested setup changes AFTER FP3, that destroyed the FP3 balance which Verstappen said was "not bad" at the time. The rest is history.

and fwiw, both cars should have made Q3 and would have done so without crucial errors from both drivers in T1. Verstappen lost 4 tenths! in T1-T3. Perez simply spun the car entirely. They would have been in Q3 otherwise. The Q2 knockout is simply a red herring. The car is not as bad as the drivers made it seem today.

The sooner we look at the facts, the less likely we are to be surprised next weekend.

[AR3-GP]

The other thing to remember is that Perez has been knocked out in Q2 in qualifying in this very car SEVERAL times. I know people like to just say he is a **** driver, but the issues the car can have when the car and driver are not in the window, often lead to Q2 knockouts on Perez's side of the garage ALL season.

It's just that it happened to Max today as well.

[AR3-GP]

And more importantly I think Verstappen will learn from this. You cannot throw big unproven setup changes on a car AFTER FP3. That’s just not on.