TD018 2023 - clampdown on flexible wings

[AR3-GP]

Nonsense... Track was repaved and super smooth, probably deleted the article to not be embarrassed.

Japan might be back on form for them. They were so strong that nothing short of a miracle can clip them bad, but it wasn't Singapore bumpiness.

Incorrect info. The entire track wasn't resurfaced or repaved. Altered piece of track was the only new piece and everything else was as is. I haven't seen a single report that mentions the entire track having been repaved. The track is just normal city roads which is used on a daily basis which naturally deforms due to regular loads.

Track was repaved entirely last year, also in part to help with porpoising.

Furthermore many drivers commented on smoothness in FP.

After all why would the rbr simulator return a high ride height but drivers feel like they can go lower if it's not because track is smoother than expected?

This was only apparent in FP3, and was mentioned previously they had a decent FP3 setup but got greedy and butchered it for qualifying.

[dialtone]

Incorrect info. The entire track wasn't resurfaced or repaved. Altered piece of track was the only new piece and everything else was as is. I haven't seen a single report that mentions the entire track having been repaved. The track is just normal city roads which is used on a daily basis which naturally deforms due to regular loads.

Track was repaved entirely last year, also in part to help with porpoising.

Furthermore many drivers commented on smoothness in FP.

After all why would the rbr simulator return a high ride height but drivers feel like they can go lower if it's not because track is smoother than expected?

This was only apparent in FP3, and was mentioned previously they had a decent FP3 setup but got greedy and butchered it for qualifying.

Right, it still happened though. My point is just that blaming the bottoming on a bumpy track when it's clearly less bumpy than Baku makes no sense. This track was very smooth, Mercedes isn't a car that likes bumps and yet there they are.

If bumpy tracks are bad then COTA will be a massacre for RedBull, might want to consider 19" wheels.

[AR3-GP]

Track was repaved entirely last year, also in part to help with porpoising.

Furthermore many drivers commented on smoothness in FP.

After all why would the rbr simulator return a high ride height but drivers feel like they can go lower if it's not because track is smoother than expected?

This was only apparent in FP3, and was mentioned previously they had a decent FP3 setup but got greedy and butchered it for qualifying.

Right, it still happened though. My point is just that blaming the bottoming on a bumpy track when it's clearly less bumpy than Baku makes no sense. This track was very smooth, Mercedes isn't a car that likes bumps and yet there they are.

If bumpy tracks are bad then COTA will be a massacre for RedBull, might want to consider 19" wheels.

COTA won't be bad because of all of the high speed corners. RB's difficulty is low speed in combination with bumps/kerbs.

[dialtone]

This was only apparent in FP3, and was mentioned previously they had a decent FP3 setup but got greedy and butchered it for qualifying.

Right, it still happened though. My point is just that blaming the bottoming on a bumpy track when it's clearly less bumpy than Baku makes no sense. This track was very smooth, Mercedes isn't a car that likes bumps and yet there they are.

If bumpy tracks are bad then COTA will be a massacre for RedBull, might want to consider 19" wheels.

COTA won't be bad because of all of the high speed corners. RB's difficulty is low speed and bumps/kerbs.

That's fine but nothing to do with what Max was complaining about in quali. He said he couldn't brake hard after a long straight because he would bottom and the fronts would unload, and then was sliding around the slow stuff.

If he can't brake hard due to bumps ofter a long straight he's done for in COTA. But that wasn't the issue so he's not done in COTA nor Japan. Bumps weren't the issue like they weren't an issue in Baku, or Bahrain for what it's worth, main straight there has become super bumpy.

Anyway...

[Dee]

If there was something to it, Toto, Merc and all other teams and drivers would be calling it out in the media. As it is, they are stating that RB will be back in Suzuka. Max doesnt smile like he does after a wkd like this if a TD was involved with their performance.

Imo, RB didn't take the re-paving into consideration, had inputed a higher ride height around the new floor setup and when that didn't work, they also didn't have a setup ready for the old floor at that height either.

Why they didn't lower the car is a mystery to me though, if what people are saying is true and there were no bumps there anymore

[AR3-GP]

Right, it still happened though. My point is just that blaming the bottoming on a bumpy track when it's clearly less bumpy than Baku makes no sense. This track was very smooth, Mercedes isn't a car that likes bumps and yet there they are.

If bumpy tracks are bad then COTA will be a massacre for RedBull, might want to consider 19" wheels.

COTA won't be bad because of all of the high speed corners. RB's difficulty is low speed and bumps/kerbs.

That's fine but nothing to do with what Max was complaining about in quali. He said he couldn't brake hard after a long straight because he would bottom and the fronts would unload, and then was sliding around the slow stuff.

If he can't brake hard due to bumps ofter a long straight he's done for in COTA. But that wasn't the issue so he's not done in COTA nor Japan. Bumps weren't the issue like they weren't an issue in Baku, or Bahrain for what it's worth, main straight there has become super bumpy.

Anyway...

The issue is that they softened the car in an attempt to manage bumps a bit better, and this means the car has more dive under braking hence the bottoming under braking after the lowered the car. This is especially exacerbated when Verstappen wanted to brake very hard on 1 lap.

This won't be necessary in COTA. You win more having a stiff platform in the highspeed corners than what you gain being soft for the 1 or 2 low speed corners.


The current RB is designed to be run as stiff and low as possible. This is not compatible with the demands of Singapore.

[dialtone]

Gonna make a last reply because ultimately we don't know exactly why the gp went as it did, RBR declared themselves to be confused on Saturday, they are pretty smart so imho it's unlikely to be a couple of small bumps.

That said here's what Hamilton (Mr. 'my back is broken' from bumps in Baku) has to say:

It’s been a great day here in Singapore. They have done an amazing job with the track changes; I love driving this circuit now more than ever. The new track surface is great, and it made the track even more enjoyable to drive. Then the removal of the four corners near the end of the lap has absolutely perfected the circuit. It’s incredible to drive.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... lY9Ui.html

That being said it's time to wait for the next track for me.

[Big Tea]

Are there any 'unseen' areas underneath the car that could fall foul of this rule?
Possibly a lip that acts as a fluid switch? (Front of the Tee tray for example?)

[AR3-GP]

Gonna make a last reply because ultimately we don't know exactly why the gp went as it did, RBR declared themselves to be confused on Saturday, they are pretty smart so imho it's unlikely to be a couple of small bumps.

That said here's what Hamilton (Mr. 'my back is broken' from bumps in Baku) has to say:

It’s been a great day here in Singapore. They have done an amazing job with the track changes; I love driving this circuit now more than ever. The new track surface is great, and it made the track even more enjoyable to drive. Then the removal of the four corners near the end of the lap has absolutely perfected the circuit. It’s incredible to drive.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... lY9Ui.html

That being said it's time to wait for the next track for me.

The track still has curbs everywhere, regardless of the bumps.

[Dee]

13:50 Peter WIndsor was talking to Newey before the race and asked about the TD, Newey said 100% no. It was just a perfect storm of everything going wrong and mentioned that the humidity and ambiance might have had an effect on the upshifts (engine) as well..

[GSBellew]

Do people not remember Mercedes having a hard time here one year whilst dominating at just about every other track, Toto even said it himself in an interview after the race.

[PlatinumZealot]

If there was something to it, Toto, Merc and all other teams and drivers would be calling it out in the media. As it is, they are stating that RB will be back in Suzuka. Max doesnt smile like he does after a wkd like this if a TD was involved with their performance.

Imo, RB didn't take the re-paving into consideration, had inputed a higher ride height around the new floor setup and when that didn't work, they also didn't have a setup ready for the old floor at that height either.

Why they didn't lower the car is a mystery to me though, if what people are saying is true and there were no bumps there anymore

I thought they did loqer the car though. They lowered it and then sent out cameramen to take photos at specific turns. When Perez skid on the curbs the car was fully bottommed too.

[Sieper]

They lowered it and went too far.

I think the stress of trying to keep the streak going also played a part in the decision making this weekend, at least, it felt like that watching from the outside (to me). Might be my personal colouring though.

[Sieper]

Also, I have one question, and this might be obvious, but weren’t the frontwings supposed to be simple under these regs? 4 simple elements. Why does every team now have a cut in the elements with two metal plates butting up against eachother and clearly moving under load. And holes in the side plate (in the corner). It would be very simple to say NO to that, or?

[dans79]

Also, I have one question, and this might be obvious, but weren’t the frontwings supposed to be simple under these regs? 4 simple elements. Why does every team now have a cut in the elements with two metal plates butting up against eachother and clearly moving under load. And holes in the side plate (in the corner). It would be very simple to say NO to that, or?

The cuts are in the rules, to allow the teams to adjust front wing DF.