2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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astralx
astralx
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Joined: 06 Mar 2012, 22:50

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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scuderiabrandon wrote:
18 Sep 2023, 19:53
Xyz22 wrote:
18 Sep 2023, 19:37
astralx wrote:
18 Sep 2023, 18:49

terrible balance mainly in long radius corners and fast direction changes ( Barcelona, Silverstone....) understeer and suddenly quick snap oversteer...traction out of slow 90º corners is not the problem...problem is when the car turns, aero is unstable,making also the tyres last shorter.... in 90 corners this is problem too, but for " shorter time"...sorry for my bad english
Yeah, but good traction requires a good rear end, no?
Traction isn't the issue. Braking and accelerating in a straight line is a strength of the SF-23. I would even go as far as to say the best on the grid. Just look at the tracks we are good at.

The front is the major limitation for Leclerc specifically (even though the gap him and SAI are still pretty close). I personally believe it also has a major effect on our front tyre degradation.

The rear end instability starts when the car goes into a corner, particularly the larger radius, higher speed corners, where you are spending more time in yaw oppose to the 90deg turns. Also the issues we had earlier with dynamic ride height caused cross winds to effect floor performance too much.

I believe the inwash concept at the rear corner of the SP is partially to blame for this. The front tyre wake that stagnates on the fac eof the rear tyre (thanks to the outwashing done by the fences, front wing, SP undercut) can too easily be diverted into the coke bottle area when in yaw or with cross winds. This dirty air migrating into a very important area causes a drastic loss in rear downforce hence the instabilities in the large radius corners when you are spending more time in yaw. I particularly like the Mercedes solution they brought to Spa. The potential outwash they can create at the rear of the SP will feed floor edge devices and manage front tyre wake in yaw.

Too me this makes sense. I hope they move away from this if it is the case. Alfa Romeo, the only other team to have done this has moved away at Singapore. Ferrari remains the only team to have inwashing geomtery at the rear corner now. I think it is becoming clear.
yes, mostly agree +1

Xyz22
Xyz22
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Joined: 16 Feb 2022, 20:05

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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You guys are much better than me at this.

I've always thought good traction required good rear downforce and great rear stability.

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scuderiabrandon
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Joined: 11 Feb 2023, 08:42

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Xyz22 wrote:
18 Sep 2023, 20:42
You guys are much better than me at this.

I've always thought good traction required good rear downforce and great rear stability.
It does require exactly that. It is just not where the SF-23 issues start.

astralx
astralx
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Joined: 06 Mar 2012, 22:50

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Xyz22 wrote:
18 Sep 2023, 20:42
You guys are much better than me at this.

I've always thought good traction required good rear downforce and great rear stability.
the car has good rear downforce and rear stability but when the car and wheels are straight , very simplified of course, sorry my english is so bad....

JPower
JPower
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Joined: 23 Feb 2021, 05:06

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Xyz22 wrote:
18 Sep 2023, 15:40


When did Leclerc say this? Hughes had an exclusive interview with him? I can't recall Leclerc say that at all.
If someone provides a source i'll take the blame of assuming Hughes made it up.
FYI, Alex Kalinauckas from Autosport also quoted similar from Leclerc so there must've been a media pool of some sort during the weekend.

Xyz22
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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JPower wrote:
18 Sep 2023, 23:42
Xyz22 wrote:
18 Sep 2023, 15:40


When did Leclerc say this? Hughes had an exclusive interview with him? I can't recall Leclerc say that at all.
If someone provides a source i'll take the blame of assuming Hughes made it up.
FYI, Alex Kalinauckas from Autosport also quoted similar from Leclerc so there must've been a media pool of some sort during the weekend.
Can you link me the quote if available?

JPower
JPower
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Joined: 23 Feb 2021, 05:06

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Xyz22 wrote:
19 Sep 2023, 00:20
JPower wrote:
18 Sep 2023, 23:42
Xyz22 wrote:
18 Sep 2023, 15:40


When did Leclerc say this? Hughes had an exclusive interview with him? I can't recall Leclerc say that at all.
If someone provides a source i'll take the blame of assuming Hughes made it up.
FYI, Alex Kalinauckas from Autosport also quoted similar from Leclerc so there must've been a media pool of some sort during the weekend.
Can you link me the quote if available?
https://www.autosport.com/podcast/

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... to-be-no2/

Xyz22
Xyz22
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Joined: 16 Feb 2022, 20:05

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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JPower wrote:
19 Sep 2023, 01:34
Xyz22 wrote:
19 Sep 2023, 00:20
JPower wrote:
18 Sep 2023, 23:42


FYI, Alex Kalinauckas from Autosport also quoted similar from Leclerc so there must've been a media pool of some sort during the weekend.
Can you link me the quote if available?
https://www.autosport.com/podcast/

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... to-be-no2/
Minute for the podcast? :D

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scuderiabrandon
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Joined: 11 Feb 2023, 08:42

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Floor and other parts for Suzuka

I think I've hinted enough at this one for a while now.

Xyz22
Xyz22
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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scuderiabrandon wrote:
19 Sep 2023, 08:51
Floor and other parts for Suzuka

I think I've hinted enough at this one for a while now.
6th floor of the year? Is it a new record?

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F1NAC
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Joined: 31 Mar 2013, 22:35

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Can’t beat those 9 or so iterations of exhaust ducts on F2012

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Vanja #66
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Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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JPower wrote:
18 Sep 2023, 14:50
Mark Hughes had an article regarding the race from Ferrari's side but I thought this was most interesting...
There was a test at the mid-point of the season where Sainz finally got the team to agree to try a set-up direction he’d been pushing for ever since first driving the SF-23 and its nervy rear end. Because it seemed to have a built-in aerodynamic inconsistency at the rear, Sainz suggested engineering in a false understeer balance so that he could at least have confidence to push. It worked for him – and for the car.

For Leclerc, not so much. “I’m not completely comfortable with the car at the moment,” he said in Singapore. “A bit too much understeer for my liking and I struggle to drive around it. Because of the unpredictability of the car, I cannot have the oversteer that I want. Because of this rear-end unpredictability we cannot run with a lot of front because then whenever you have a snap, you lose a lot of grip from the car and it’s just very difficult to manage. It’s not that it’s an understeery car but you have to put understeer in to make it predictable.
This wouldn't be the first time such solutions are used in F1, it's more than plausible. I expected they had a relatively complex flow at the front, so they were forced to use a specific design of FW flaps to avoid disturbing the flow towards the floor, resulting in lower front downforce. This is a simpler explanation.

Looking at the results of the Evo/post-Barcelona car, this test would most likely be the Barcelona tyre test, after which came Canada and overall decent results for the team. I expect they had to push it further towards understeer for Singapore high-downforce requirements in order to make it driveable, since Hungary and Zandvoort were really bad races for Ferrari. This was most likely the result of high-downforce testing Ferrari did in Monza tyre test.

scuderiabrandon wrote:
18 Sep 2023, 19:53
The front is the major limitation for Leclerc specifically (even though the gap him and SAI are still pretty close). I personally believe it also has a major effect on our front tyre degradation.
Absolutely.

scuderiabrandon wrote:
18 Sep 2023, 19:53
I believe the inwash concept at the rear corner of the SP is partially to blame for this. The front tyre wake that stagnates on the fac eof the rear tyre (thanks to the outwashing done by the fences, front wing, SP undercut) can too easily be diverted into the coke bottle area when in yaw or with cross winds. This dirty air migrating into a very important area causes a drastic loss in rear downforce hence the instabilities in the large radius corners when you are spending more time in yaw. I particularly like the Mercedes solution they brought to Spa. The potential outwash they can create at the rear of the SP will feed floor edge devices and manage front tyre wake in yaw.
Inwash worked more then well last year. The problem came with raising the floor edges. Ferrari also raised the whole car in Spa last year bit too much, making for the worst race pace last year (along with Mexico, but that was more PU related). Ferrari engineers said their sidepods are obsolete with TD039 last year. Raising the floor edges hurt their idea and messed it up completely. It's a very complex flow area and I wouldn't dare say what the actual phenomena are. Maybe the wide wall of the downwash ramp produces quite strong pressurisation which pushes the dirty air wide even while cornering and in yaw. I suspect it's more complex than that, since the diffuser suction is quite strong and I have to guess these two effects have to be managed with other local flow structures.
AeroGimli.x

And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

JPower
JPower
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Joined: 23 Feb 2021, 05:06

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Question for everyone, what are your odds on Ferrari catching and passing Mercedes for 2nd by the end of the year?

They are currently 24 points away.

Might come down to track type more than anything else.

ferrarifire
ferrarifire
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Joined: 22 Mar 2016, 17:13

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Mercedes is genuinely quicker than Ferrari now .Ferrari is managed to crawl back few points in the last couple of races and closed the gap.i still feel Mercedes may secure the 2nd place..Ferrari is planning few upgrades in the upcoming races ..if the package is faster then the position may swap.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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ferrarifire wrote:
19 Sep 2023, 17:26
Mercedes is genuinely quicker than Ferrari now .Ferrari is managed to crawl back few points in the last couple of races and closed the gap.i still feel Mercedes may secure the 2nd place..Ferrari is planning few upgrades in the upcoming races ..if the package is faster then the position may swap.
On the other hand, Ferrari has been executing better as a team than merc in the last few races. Merc drivers crash or have in-race penalties. the crashed and tripped over each other in Spain and Spa qualy. Ferrari drivers cooperated to win the race in singapore. Ferrari drivers have also been very clean/error free lately (Monza silly buggers aside... :wink: ). Ferrari seems to have steadied while Merc has become increasingly erratic. This kind of thing will help Ferrari even if their car is no longer faster than the Merc due to the track. It's been a long time since you could say that.
Last edited by AR3-GP on 19 Sep 2023, 18:18, edited 1 time in total.
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