2023 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, Sep 15 -17

[mclaren111]

Why are we debating this. The stewards deemed that Lewis had to give the position back to Lando after cutting the chicane according to their data. How can we decide differently if we don't have enough evidence?

Because it's a forum where we can discuss things amicably without being policed by people with nothing sensible to add!

Or supposed to be.

There's is tons of footage for people to form an opinion and discuss and because someone things it is worth discussing the fine line. And here's the crazy bit, people who want to get involved and discuss can, and those that don't can stay out, and if people aren't interested the discussion will peter out! Seriously, with some of the tripe you put in here why are you now trying to pick up some sort of censorship role? Censor yourself.

But please don't ask questions like "if Zak Brown was wearing red Shoes, and we qualified 3rd, but then he was wearing green shoes and qualified 10th, should he never wear green shoes again?"

[Matt2725]

Does anyone know why the Merc team have stopped going up to the podium celebrations? Second time this year now for Lewis.

Got to say, that must be heart breaking not being able to share the podium celebrations with your team.
Definitely got to give some credit to Ferrari and McLaren for celebrating with Lewis.

They were there. For whatever reason they weren't shown but there are images about that the Merc staff can be seen between Ferrari and McLaren.

I would suggest you stop paying attention to Twitter conspiracies, that make one team look bad for no apparent reason.

[mclaren111]

Only if he was far-enough along side going into the corner, which he wasn’t

They were approaching the next apex and well past the previous is my view of it, but I suppose that is where the line might be.

Overtaking on the outside suggests you need the car the be in front of the defending car. Overtaking on the inside deems you just need the front wheels alongside.

So I guess when I look at this I see them past and exiting that corner and coming in to the next with Hamilton on the inside, the move to the right by Ham is made just before the apex of the next corner with Russell closing off his move into the next corner.

I don't think it is as clear cut as some want to think, and still don't agree with the decision even though I'm a Lando fan, but I can at least understand it in detail having had some sensible discussion.

It wasn't about speed and never was about speed, IT WAS ABOUT WHETHER HE WAS ON THE INSIDE OR OUTSIDE and who owned the space. For those that need caps to make a point And their positioning inbetween two corners crates a gray area.

However, I still don't think that should have had anything to do with the move on Lando.

You can’t just divebomb and expect the car who’s travelling on the fastest line of the apex to all of a sudden move left to accommodate. He’s driving into a disappearing wedge and judging by how quickly he went full gas down the escape road he knew it very early on.

Agreed... The FIA acted correctly in this instance... Normally LH gets away with these things...

[chrisc90]

Does anyone know why the Merc team have stopped going up to the podium celebrations? Second time this year now for Lewis.

Got to say, that must be heart breaking not being able to share the podium celebrations with your team.
Definitely got to give some credit to Ferrari and McLaren for celebrating with Lewis.

They were there. For whatever reason they weren't shown but there are images about that the Merc staff can be seen between Ferrari and McLaren.

I would suggest you stop paying attention to Twitter conspiracies, that make one team look bad for no apparent reason.

If they were there fair enough, just the general consensus is that nobody was there. I’ll go back and watch the celebrations again tonight and hopefully I’ll be corrected.

[PikeStance]

Well he clearly did make it as demonstrated by the three videos But even so, your discussing the Russell pass

He's under control made the turn, no lockup, pass on Lando was complete. The he is attacking Russell, had no space and he needed to give the place to Russell.



Sometimes we need to put bias aside and admit we got lucky cos we sure as hell bitch when it goes the other way!

This was a silly analysis. He was "under control" because he backed out of the maneuver. If he tried to brake and turn he would have lost control. This is why he went off track. He was incredibly ambitious of Hamilton to think he could throw himself into the curve and expect other drivers to back off or move out of his way. Anyway, he carried too much speed to complete the double pass without illegally leaving the track to do so, thus the reason why he gave up the positions. It really is that simple.

I think you can see that he was under control because he made the corner and was almost pointing to the next apex before darting off track and accelerating, all without locking or going off track. You can also see he has plenty of turn on the wheel left.

How is it that you think he would lose control, why does he need to brake any more? Other tan to avoid a car that is running him off the track?

I obviously can't see it, but doesn't mean it isn't there, but what is it in the video that shows he couldn't make the turn?

As for expecting people to give space, that's the rules, he had the car in the right place according to the regs that Russell should give space.

He did not maintain control of the car by keeping it within the white lines. He then went off track and gained an advantage. Russel had the right to his line. he is not obligated to get out of his way simply because he is coming in fast. It was a high-risk move that didn't pan out for Hamilton.

[Wouter]

Does anyone know why the Merc team have stopped going up to the podium celebrations? Second time this year now for Lewis.

Got to say, that must be heart breaking not being able to share the podium celebrations with your team.
Definitely got to give some credit to Ferrari and McLaren for celebrating with Lewis.

.
They were there. For whatever reason they weren't shown but there are images about that the Merc staff can be seen between Ferrari and McLaren.

I would suggest you stop paying attention to Twitter conspiracies, that make one team look bad for no apparent reason.

.
If they were there fair enough, just the general consensus is that nobody was there. I’ll go back and watch the celebrations again tonight and hopefully I’ll be corrected.

.
During the podium ceremony Lewis never looked at his team or pointed at them what he always did, because there were no Mercedes team members. Only a couple of Mercedes fans attended the ceremony.

[mwillems]

This was a silly analysis. He was "under control" because he backed out of the maneuver. If he tried to brake and turn he would have lost control. This is why he went off track. He was incredibly ambitious of Hamilton to think he could throw himself into the curve and expect other drivers to back off or move out of his way. Anyway, he carried too much speed to complete the double pass without illegally leaving the track to do so, thus the reason why he gave up the positions. It really is that simple.

I think you can see that he was under control because he made the corner and was almost pointing to the next apex before darting off track and accelerating, all without locking or going off track. You can also see he has plenty of turn on the wheel left.

How is it that you think he would lose control, why does he need to brake any more? Other tan to avoid a car that is running him off the track?

I obviously can't see it, but doesn't mean it isn't there, but what is it in the video that shows he couldn't make the turn?

As for expecting people to give space, that's the rules, he had the car in the right place according to the regs that Russell should give space.

He did not maintain control of the car by keeping it within the white lines. He then went off track and gained an advantage. Russel had the right to his line. he is not obligated to get out of his way simply because he is coming in fast. It was a high-risk move that didn't pan out for Hamilton.

As I've said, I'm not questioning this incident in isolation, it is easy to look at that and work out some rules because the FIA docs give you soo much leeway for the stewards. The issue is then comparing it to other examples where the decision runs totally contrary to this and the pass was allowed. Because in other overtakes I can't see an example where it has been so rigorously applied as here with situations that were more slam dunk. This overtake, whilst in isolation makes sense, doesn't make sense in the way these decisions are often made.

We know he went off, the question is around what separates the moves and why is it that when others went off track on escape roads like when Piastri lost a place to Russell in spain and the pass was then made off track, not on, the was the pass allowed, but here he can clear the car and turn in and it is not. Both go off track, Hamilton has more substatially more done than Russel did. The decision around this move whilst it can be logicalised, does not align with previously applied logic and the decision rankles me.

[chrisc90]

Got to say that is pretty saddening for Lewis. Genuinely do feel for him a bit on that one.

Guess the video confirms the ‘Twitter Conspiracies’ as fact then.

[the EDGE]

I think you can see that he was under control because he made the corner and was almost pointing to the next apex before darting off track and accelerating, all without locking or going off track. You can also see he has plenty of turn on the wheel left.

How is it that you think he would lose control, why does he need to brake any more? Other tan to avoid a car that is running him off the track?

I obviously can't see it, but doesn't mean it isn't there, but what is it in the video that shows he couldn't make the turn?

As for expecting people to give space, that's the rules, he had the car in the right place according to the regs that Russell should give space.

He did not maintain control of the car by keeping it within the white lines. He then went off track and gained an advantage. Russel had the right to his line. he is not obligated to get out of his way simply because he is coming in fast. It was a high-risk move that didn't pan out for Hamilton.

As I've said, I'm not questioning this incident in isolation, it is easy to look at that and work out some rules because the FIA docs give you soo much leeway for the stewards. The issue is then comparing it to other examples where the decision runs totally contrary to this and the pass was allowed. Because in other overtakes I can't see an example where it has been so rigorously applied as here with situations that were more slam dunk. This overtake, whilst in isolation makes sense, doesn't make sense in the way these decisions are often made.

We know he went off, the question is around what separates the moves and why is it that when others went off track on escape roads like when Piastri lost a place to Russell in spain and the pass was then made off track, not on, the was the pass allowed, but here he can clear the car and turn in and it is not. Both go off track, Hamilton has more substatially more done than Russel did. The decision around this move whilst it can be logicalised, does not align with previously applied logic and the decision rankles me.

The rule is to do with 'Gaining a lasting advantage', If I am not mistaken, it has nothing specifically to do with overtaking off-track per se.

If you have the right to be left a car's width by the person your overtaking, and they do not, and force you wide, then you can legitimately pass them off-track. I.e you didn't leave the track to gain an advantage, you had no choice but to leave the track

If I'm honest, I'm am surprised they told Lewis to give the place back, but not because I didn't think he should, just I didn't think the stewards would bother to.

I believe what I said originally would be their justification, had Lewis slowed sufficiently to stay on-track, Lando could/would have been able to get the position back, so Lewis was deemed to have gained an advantage

I bet a pound to a penny that had it been a RB or a Ferrari pulling of the Lewis move ,the stewards wouldn't have batted an eye-lid. It is a sad fact the stewarding is completely inconsistent and quite frankly hugely bias IMO. It comes from having local stewards at each event, which is a terrible idea that needs urgently addressing

[Darth-Piekus]

Because it's a forum where we can discuss things amicably without being policed by people with nothing sensible to add!

Or supposed to be.

There's is tons of footage for people to form an opinion and discuss and because someone things it is worth discussing the fine line. And here's the crazy bit, people who want to get involved and discuss can, and those that don't can stay out, and if people aren't interested the discussion will peter out! Seriously, with some of the tripe you put in here why are you now trying to pick up some sort of censorship role? Censor yourself.

But please don't ask questions like "if Zak Brown was wearing red Shoes, and we qualified 3rd, but then he was wearing green shoes and qualified 10th, should he never wear green shoes again?"

Take a deep breath and count to 10 to chill. Im not a moderator to moderate anything. Everyone can discuss whatever they feel like. All Im wondering is why are we trying to debunk the stewards who simply have way more data than any of us. As for the last sentence I would ask you one question. What makes you think your opinion is more relevant than anyone else to the point you are striking below the belt to anyone you dont agree with. Respect the others no matter who they are with their positives and negatives

[Wouter]

You already knew what happened, and who was there and who wasn’t. It’s the reason you’ve made such an effort posting about it. Pretty sad, but no surprise given the lengths anti Ham, pro RB guys go, in trying to make out Ham isn’t liked by his team.

.
I have just seen video footage from the stage. On the left side were all photographers. Next to them were the Ferrari people
and on the far right were the McLaren people. Not one person from Mercedes to be seen.
This happened three times with Sainz on the podium. Also no one from Ferrari was watching. Strange.

That is not because the Mercedes people don't love Lewis. Nonsense! Everybody just want to know where they were.
This has nothing to do with pro RB guys. Even journalists asked where they were. All RB guys too??

[Just_a_fan]

Got to say that is pretty saddening for Lewis. Genuinely do feel for him a bit on that one.

Guess the video confirms the ‘Twitter Conspiracies’ as fact then.

The way it skips around shows that it is edited. A video that has been edited can show lots of things to be "true" or "false".

But I guess a story about Hamilton being "unloved" helps to divert away from other potentially bigger issues in the paddock.

[chrisc90]

Got to say that is pretty saddening for Lewis. Genuinely do feel for him a bit on that one.

Guess the video confirms the ‘Twitter Conspiracies’ as fact then.

The way it skips around shows that it is edited. A video that has been edited can show lots of things to be "true" or "false".

But I guess a story about Hamilton being "unloved" helps to divert away from other potentially bigger issues in the paddock.

Do you not think that would be a lot of hassle to edit a video that isn’t there to call someone out? Certainly the audio seems very fluent in regards to speech

I’ll watch the live feed on F1TV tonight and see if it’s different or not.

Don’t get me wrong - I believe it’s the second time now it’s happened - I would hope it’s not a regular occurrence if Lewis was to get onto the podium more in the future.

[chrisc90]

Just re-watched and there is about 1 team member who’s a videographer in the corner. Other than that there is no other merc team personnel there.

Real shame. Any driver on the podium deserves to celebrate with their team.

[Wouter]

Got to say that is pretty saddening for Lewis. Genuinely do feel for him a bit on that one.

Guess the video confirms the ‘Twitter Conspiracies’ as fact then.

The way it skips around shows that it is edited. A video that has been edited can show lots of things to be "true" or "false".

.
I watched this morning (CET) the last thrilling part of the race again and the podium ceremony. I couldn't post that,
but I found this video on YT. A little part is removed but there was no Mercedes crew to be seen on that removed part.