TD018 2023 - clampdown on flexible wings

[AR3-GP]

It's in the future, I'm being dry regarding the inevitable response of some fans and the predetermined nature of their responses whilst kind of giving the flippant question the flippant response it deserved

It was a serious question. There are teams who have been impacted by the TD but much of the legitimate discussion has been obfuscated by Singapore unfortunately. It's no surprise that most teams took advantage of Singapore to deflect attention towards RB but as we move back to a more traditional circuit, the teams who were affected will have to face reality.

See this report:

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-as ... /10523015/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6i9S2zWUAE ... ame=medium

Well, it will take a few races to understand if we can see an impact as the data overcomes the ebb and flow of teams strengths and weaknesses at different tracks

If in a few races RB have extended their winning margins then someone could reasonably hypothesise that others have been adversely impacted.

But not after Japan, its not enough data, which is why I thought you were being obtuse. Any kinds of variation and anomaly could skew that result.

A large portion of this thread is the anticipation of confirmation bias, which is worse than the bias itself, like warming up the arguments for the various outcomes that could occur and the single driver on 2 of the sides is the anticipation of impact or no impact on RB.

"I would think that if they're not 30 seconds ahead like they have been in the past, then something's up," Hamilton said.

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/hamil ... /10522957/

This may be part of why F1 followers think that Japan is a deterministic race weekend.

[mwillems]

It was a serious question. There are teams who have been impacted by the TD but much of the legitimate discussion has been obfuscated by Singapore unfortunately. It's no surprise that most teams took advantage of Singapore to deflect attention towards RB but as we move back to a more traditional circuit, the teams who were affected will have to face reality.

See this report:

Well, it will take a few races to understand if we can see an impact as the data overcomes the ebb and flow of teams strengths and weaknesses at different tracks

If in a few races RB have extended their winning margins then someone could reasonably hypothesise that others have been adversely impacted.

But not after Japan, its not enough data, which is why I thought you were being obtuse. Any kinds of variation and anomaly could skew that result.

A large portion of this thread is the anticipation of confirmation bias, which is worse than the bias itself, like warming up the arguments for the various outcomes that could occur and the single driver on 2 of the sides is the anticipation of impact or no impact on RB.

Lewis Hamilton said the following:

"I would think that if they're not 30 seconds ahead like they have been in the past, then something's up," Hamilton said.

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/hamil ... /10522957/

This may be part of why F1 followers think that Japan is a deterministic race weekend.

Probably but to me and I would expect many others, that is just stirring from Hamilton, for me it is a bit disappointing to see. But that is just my opinion and I don't suggest it's not fun to discuss.

[mwillems]

Again, apologies, I wasn't intending to be rude in my initial response.

[PlatinumZealot]

If RB win by more than 30 seconds here, does that mean that the other teams were affected by the TD? It would make sense that this works both ways.

Not quite. The bolean operator was "less than" 30 seconds. So finishing gap of 30 seconds or more means that normal service resumes and not that other teams went slower.


Anyway. TheRedBull lineage of cars always were strong in Suzuka because that track has high speeds corners and uses the front just as hard as the rear so good balance is at a premium, it's arguably made for RedBull. If they are not dominant here obviously something would be off.

[organic]

If RB win by more than 30 seconds here, does that mean that the other teams were affected by the TD? It would make sense that this works both ways.

Not quite. The bolean operator was "less than" 30 seconds. So finishing gap of 30 seconds or more means that normal service resumes and not that other teams went slower.

And how should obvious obfuscating factors, such as the self-reported 4 tenth upgrade that McLaren brought at Singapore and then added subsequent changes to at Suzuka, be removed? Reality is they can't, but it won't stop some people trying to create baseless narratives pulling arbitrary requirements for RB's performance out of nowhere

Where was the same energy when in the 9 race stretch between Saudi Arabia and Silverstone there was not a single instance of RB having a >30s margin over all other constructors in the race? 30s margins are the exception not the norm even if that's not what suits you

[PlatinumZealot]

McLaren race pace went to 2nd tier from being 3rd tier. They are still in that chasing pack. Won't make a difference to the gap. Ferrari is actually quicker but just in qualifying and not much in race pace.

[mwillems]

McLaren race pace went to 2nd tier from being 3rd tier. They are still in that chasing pack. Won't make a difference to the gap. Ferrari is actually quicker but just in qualifying and not much in race pace.

What if RB choose not to.push too hard? If I was Max I'd have some fun with this but we've seen before they haven't always pushed 100% and the gap could be bigger.

[Cs98]

McLaren race pace went to 2nd tier from being 3rd tier. They are still in that chasing pack. Won't make a difference to the gap. Ferrari is actually quicker but just in qualifying and not much in race pace.

That's your conclusion from one race on an outlier track? Where they were stuck in traffic the entire race. Outlandish claim. We simply don't know McLaren's pace yet with the new upgrade. I would guess it's going to be good based on similar tracks plus the added performance.

[Stu]

Maybe [...]

Well good thing you didn't write "yes" as that is from Jeddah :^)

Here's a bunch more:

Testing
https://i.imgur.com/jMEljGI.png

Australia
https://i.imgur.com/MeinaV3.png

Miami
https://i.imgur.com/mU0ghMS.png

Hungary
https://i.imgur.com/irQphF3.png

Singapore
https://i.imgur.com/1WZin5V.png

Belgium
https://i.imgur.com/zgCQRUL.png

Again Singapore
https://i.imgur.com/V27sVoQ.png

Zandvoort vs Singapore
https://i.imgur.com/mr8hI6U.png https://i.imgur.com/2rzJrYV.png

It might be slightly different panels for wing types/downforce levels, different tape application and varying lighting conditions but there's no real difference between them, at least in thickness, is there?

And there's still quite a bit of the usual movement, even on the inboard pieces, despite this being a comparison with a small delta (278 and 120 kph, i did not have anything better) and far from top speed on a low/moderate (?) DF level wing (at least compared to places like Zandvoort etc)
https://i.imgur.com/CLH9sJk.gif

I'd personally reserve judgement and wait for the next race(s), they will run more DF and higher top speeds there, maybe i'll be able to grab some footage for them and other cars, it's a rarely used cam unfortunately.

Thank you @RZS10

I just caught a shot of GR63 from Q2…
https://share.icloud.com/photos/073kAI ... 2nwYbg6zpQ

When you compare it to views from earlier in the year it does look a bit ‘slapped on’ (as opposed to ‘carefully applied’. It could be lighting; but as you say, that exact view is a rare one. If you were looking to exploit the grey that was previously present (pre-TD018 clarification), it is exactly where you would tune the structure (and hide it in plain sight).

As for the hyper-sensitive, overly defensive responses that were previously received (to the original post), highlighting and asking whether anyone else has spotted it has nothing to do with inter-team/partisan dynamics, simply admiration of the engineering solutions.

[randolf]

It appears Mercedes and Aston have been hit by the TD. They have fallen so far away!

[chrisc90]

I wonder who will be silenced this week.

RB and McLaren certainly don’t seem to have been affected.

[KimiRai]

It appears Mercedes and Aston have been hit by the TD. They have fallen so far away!

Aston was hit by an FIA intervention before the TD was implemented for similar reasons, so pretty much yes.

[organic]

It appears Mercedes and Aston have been hit by the TD. They have fallen so far away!

Aston was hit by an FIA intervention before the TD was implemented for similar reasons, so pretty much yes.

is it possible the fia intervention was only on the front wing because it was super visible and pointed out by other teams, and they've had to make other similar changes with the introduction of the TD? I am thinking things like the rear-wing assembly's attachment to chassis

[Juzh]

It appears Mercedes and Aston have been hit by the TD. They have fallen so far away!

Aston was hit by an FIA intervention before the TD was implemented for similar reasons, so pretty much yes.

is it possible the fia intervention was only on the front wing because it was super visible and pointed out by other teams, and they've had to make other similar changes with the introduction of the TD? I am thinking things like the rear-wing assembly's attachment to chassis

aston still flexes a lot tbh, not sure what to make of the TDs exactly

check it out

[Sieper]

Mercedes introduced new rear wing endplates, they kind of look like rudders to me. Hopefully this is a genuine innovation and not reactionary to claw back after the TD.