2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
KimiRai
KimiRai
257
Joined: 10 Aug 2022, 20:08

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 15:11
K1Plus wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 11:33
organic wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 11:26
Alonso's Q3 time this year (1.30.560) is slower than Vettel's Q3 time from last season (1.30.554)
Baffles me, how have they made the car faster start of the season, yet this upgraded and modified one is slower than the end of 2022 car.

It's not baffling. It was the FIA. The front wing changes killed them.
I would add that most people who ask for them to test/return to the Bahrein spec haven't thought that that car is illegal at this point.

KimiRai
KimiRai
257
Joined: 10 Aug 2022, 20:08

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

Post

One of the few positive things to comment as of late is the DRS delta is decent at least.

Image

User avatar
scuderiabrandon
103
Joined: 11 Feb 2023, 08:42

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

Post

KimiRai wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 18:47
One of the few positive things to comment as of late is the DRS delta is decent at least.

https://i.imgur.com/leuPAf2.png
If you really look into it you'll realize what a useless stat this is, it doesn't deserve the hype it gotten.

KimiRai
KimiRai
257
Joined: 10 Aug 2022, 20:08

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

Post

scuderiabrandon wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 19:11
KimiRai wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 18:47
One of the few positive things to comment as of late is the DRS delta is decent at least.

https://i.imgur.com/leuPAf2.png
If you really look into it you'll realize what a useless stat this is, it doesn't deserve the hype it gotten.
Then you've taken from us the little we had left and destroyed all of our hopes and dreams... jk

User avatar
diffuser
236
Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

Post

KimiRai wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 18:24
AR3-GP wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 15:11
K1Plus wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 11:33


Baffles me, how have they made the car faster start of the season, yet this upgraded and modified one is slower than the end of 2022 car.

It's not baffling. It was the FIA. The front wing changes killed them.
I would add that most people who ask for them to test/return to the Bahrein spec haven't thought that that car is illegal at this point.
Think the tire change hurt them as well. Think the tire wear problem other teams, like McLaren, had was cause the already had more DF than Aston. They just couldn't use it cause the tires would wear out. They now can make better use of their DF during the race and are leaving Aston behind.

User avatar
peewon
3
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 03:11

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 15:11
K1Plus wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 11:33
organic wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 11:26
Alonso's Q3 time this year (1.30.560) is slower than Vettel's Q3 time from last season (1.30.554)
Baffles me, how have they made the car faster start of the season, yet this upgraded and modified one is slower than the end of 2022 car.

It's not baffling. It was the FIA. The front wing changes killed them.
I seriously doubt a front wing change makes them 1 second slower than the current second place team. Apart from the off season, can we look at any point and say, AM looks fundamentally faster than before? They've had many races since the front wing change now including a month long summer break. They've had a couple of results like Canada and Zandvoort but at no point have they looked like they've taken a concrete step forward which translates from track to track. Other teams have put out second cars in that amount of time.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

Post

peewon wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 22:40
AR3-GP wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 15:11
K1Plus wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 11:33


Baffles me, how have they made the car faster start of the season, yet this upgraded and modified one is slower than the end of 2022 car.

It's not baffling. It was the FIA. The front wing changes killed them.
I seriously doubt a front wing change makes them 1 second slower than the current second place team.
Look at how TD039 killed the F1-75. Alonso went from "this is so lovely to drive" to the car looking diabolical. Stroll went from easy Q3s to out in Q1 3 races in a row.
A lion must kill its prey.

dialtone
dialtone
121
Joined: 25 Feb 2019, 01:31

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

Post

Yeah the TD39 update likely forced them to raise the car and killed a lot of the downforce

max_speed
max_speed
4
Joined: 29 Oct 2012, 04:33

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

Post

They started season great but progress is very less, if they end season on low its not great for morale, loss of momentum and others gaining it can bring exponential downfall next year. Stroll is making matters worse, one driver one car feedback can take you to limited upside, specially when they are chasing top.

makecry
makecry
19
Joined: 06 Mar 2016, 22:33

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

Post

max_speed wrote:
24 Sep 2023, 04:28
They started season great but progress is very less, if they end season on low its not great for morale, loss of momentum and others gaining it can bring exponential downfall next year. Stroll is making matters worse, one driver one car feedback can take you to limited upside, specially when they are chasing top.
Progress is out of the window. Their car was basically nerfed.

User avatar
peewon
3
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 03:11

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 23:30
peewon wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 22:40
AR3-GP wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 15:11


It's not baffling. It was the FIA. The front wing changes killed them.
I seriously doubt a front wing change makes them 1 second slower than the current second place team.
Look at how TD039 killed the F1-75. Alonso went from "this is so lovely to drive" to the car looking diabolical. Stroll went from easy Q3s to out in Q1 3 races in a row.
Ride height is a very fundamental parameter for a car concept, much more so than the degree to which a front wing flexes. Even then F1-75 was never as bad or lost as much ground to virtually every other team as AM has.

I think the poor handling has a lot has to do with their upgrades to make the car less draggy. Front wing alone cannot account for that much deficit in my opinion.

dialtone
dialtone
121
Joined: 25 Feb 2019, 01:31

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

Post

peewon wrote:
AR3-GP wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 23:30
peewon wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 22:40
I seriously doubt a front wing change makes them 1 second slower than the current second place team.
Look at how TD039 killed the F1-75. Alonso went from "this is so lovely to drive" to the car looking diabolical. Stroll went from easy Q3s to out in Q1 3 races in a row.
Ride height is a very fundamental parameter for a car concept, much more so than the degree to which a front wing flexes. Even then F1-75 was never as bad or lost as much ground to virtually every other team as AM has.

I think the poor handling has a lot has to do with their upgrades to make the car less draggy. Front wing alone cannot account for that much deficit in my opinion.
Updated TD39 was about ride height. TD18 is flexi-wings. They had both as a double whammy.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

Post

peewon wrote:
24 Sep 2023, 05:26
AR3-GP wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 23:30
peewon wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 22:40


I seriously doubt a front wing change makes them 1 second slower than the current second place team.
Look at how TD039 killed the F1-75. Alonso went from "this is so lovely to drive" to the car looking diabolical. Stroll went from easy Q3s to out in Q1 3 races in a row.
Ride height is a very fundamental parameter for a car concept, much more so than the degree to which a front wing flexes. Even then F1-75 was never as bad or lost as much ground to virtually every other team as AM has.

I think the poor handling has a lot has to do with their upgrades to make the car less draggy. Front wing alone cannot account for that much deficit in my opinion.
The car isn't just poor handling. It's also slow. You can be poor handling and fast (see Mercedes with no rear, and Ferrari with no front).

The front wing sets up the airflow to the rest of the car. That's why in previous seasons, the teams had the cheese grater wings and why banning them cost so much performance. Front wings can have a profound effect on the stability of the floor aerodynamics when the floor is designed around a certain front wing deflection. Especially if that wing deflection was promoting outwash and the rest of the car was designed around it.

Alonso qualified 1.6 seconds off pole. The performance loss of this car is mind blowing. It only points to a complete destruction of their concept by a regulations tweak unless you believe that they are so incompetent that their upgrades made them slower.
A lion must kill its prey.

User avatar
noshbloke
0
Joined: 04 Jun 2023, 01:02

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

Post

well we can debate about the front wing this and that, but to be fair the floor development is quite left behind, the car is not agile and you can see it especially when they race in circuit who have slow and fast corner.

The race pace is not good, the rear is suffering from over heating both on Soft and Hard tyre

User avatar
organic
1055
Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

Post

A rear-wing failure just after they introduced regulations to limit component flexing especially at the nose and rear-wing with TD-018. It was also spotted that AMR had a sensor mounted to the rear of the car where the wing attaches to the chassis; this is something they're clearly worried about.

Image

I remember back in 2021 the flexi-wing rules were introduced at the French GP and then RB suffered DRS and rear-wing failures later in the season such as at Mexico where they almost ran out of rear-wings.

I don't think it's just a coincidence