TD018 2023 - clampdown on flexible wings

[AR3-GP]

Where would you place Qatar in tracks? We expected to have in Japan a similar result like in Spain. I feel like Qatar is also not far off from this style of corners.

Similar to Zandvoort and spain yes but basically no low speed. Main difference with Qatar is the kerbs are more aggressive than others. In 2021 they caused damage to some front wings/floors

Red & white painted ones are not a problem and are low enough to go over easily. Those additional white protrusions are the ones that caused mayhem in 2021. I count 5 corner exits with these kerbs 2023 cars will not dare touch.

T15 - this one was able to destroy 2021 cars, so 2023 will be easy meat. pretty much guaranteed floor destruction.
https://i.imgur.com/C9bH3UI.jpg

Front wings are a lot higher from the ground under the new regs than they were in 2021 so probably less of a problem. Also wasn't the reason for Gasly's front wing damage a slow puncture? Or was it the other way around?

IIRC it was tire failures that were caused by the kerbs. Gasly in qualifying and then Norris and Bottas in the race.

[Juzh]

Similar to Zandvoort and spain yes but basically no low speed. Main difference with Qatar is the kerbs are more aggressive than others. In 2021 they caused damage to some front wings/floors

Red & white painted ones are not a problem and are low enough to go over easily. Those additional white protrusions are the ones that caused mayhem in 2021. I count 5 corner exits with these kerbs 2023 cars will not dare touch.

T15 - this one was able to destroy 2021 cars, so 2023 will be easy meat. pretty much guaranteed floor destruction.
https://i.imgur.com/C9bH3UI.jpg

Front wings are a lot higher from the ground under the new regs than they were in 2021 so probably less of a problem. Also wasn't the reason for Gasly's front wing damage a slow puncture? Or was it the other way around?

IIRC it was tire failures that were caused by the kerbs. Gasly in qualifying and then Norris and Bottas in the race.

You're right front wings are probably safe this year, but floors could still get wrecked.

[Sieper]

That means the topteams simply cant take any risks in Q1 and Q2 jet.

[TFSA]

You're right front wings are probably safe this year, but floors could still get wrecked.

If it wasn't a problem in 2022, then it's unlikely to be a problem this year, since they've increased the minimum ride height.

EDIT: Nvm I'm an idiot. Forgot they didn't race there last year.

[AR3-GP]

Drivers will just have to stay within the track limits.

[Sieper]

Drivers will just have to stay within the track limits.

Ofc. But a small error is easily made and it can mean you won’t be able to qualify well. Part of the tension at this track.

[RZS10]

I drove a couple of current gen cars around this track in Assetto Corsa and the kerbs did not damage the floors.

[AR3-GP]

Drivers will just have to stay within the track limits.

Ofc. But a small error is easily made and it can mean you won’t be able to qualify well. Part of the tension at this track.

True. I think it will be similar to degner 2 at Suzuka. If you go out too wide, you hit the plank hard. The raised floor edges will help unless the car takes an awkward bounce. It's like any proper circuit anyway. Go out of track limits and you end up with damage. I have no complaints other than not thinking it's a great F1 circuit because following will be difficult.

[Cs98]

If you cannot recognize the trolling by PZ you are blind.

You clearly don't know what trolling is. Looking at the other side of the argument with reasonable points is normal. Do you want each thread to be a "circle-jerk" where everybody has the same opinion?

Its is a fair, and normal argument is that the technical directive will affect the fastest car in the field. What's the point of arguing it for the slowest car or no cars at all? Might as well lock the thread then.

The Merc is not the slowest car in the field.

[AR3-GP]

If you cannot recognize the trolling by PZ you are blind.

You clearly don't know what trolling is. Looking at the other side of the argument with reasonable points is normal. Do you want each thread to be a "circle-jerk" where everybody has the same opinion?

Its is a fair, and normal argument is that the technical directive will affect the fastest car in the field. What's the point of arguing it for the slowest car or no cars at all? Might as well lock the thread then.

Are you going to write a response to any of reasonable points which were written in direct response to your post? They are below:

We cannot ignore Perez's performance.

Didn't he fail to make q2 for like 5 straight races earlier in the season?

He qualified 8 tenths off Max at Suzuka which is less than the margin he's had to max at other times this season (9 tenths at spa, 1.9s at Canada in Q2, 1.3s at Zandvoort). While Max's margin in qualifying at Suzuka was the 2nd largest it's been over the field all year.

We cannot ignore Perez's performance.

Qualifying:

Aus: P20
Bak: P3
Mia : P1
Mon: P20
Spa: P11
Can: P12
Aut: P15
Bri: P16
huny: P9
Bel: P3
Ne: P7
Ita: P5
Sin: P15
Jap: P5

We cannot ignore Perez's performance.

We not only can - we have to. For the purposes of this discussion, the only interesting data point is what the cars are capable of.

And if just one driver can make it sing, then whatever the other driver is doing is rather irrelevant.

We cannot ignore Perez's performance.

The entire premise that it's a dominant car is based on ignoring Perez's performance, so we absolutely can.

McLaren has clearly taken a step with their upgrades. The gap to the other teams is as big as ever. Could be that the likes of Merc and AMR have been affected by the TD.

We are certainly going to watch out for that. Merc wasn’t as competitive here as they have been in some other races so for me it is a bit inconclusive if they have been hit. Lewis was something like 50 seconds off Max. He said if Max could make a gap of 30 seconds then everything is normal, but this is a bit more.

[RZS10]

We are certainly going to watch out for that. Merc wasn’t as competitive here as they have been in some other races so for me it is a bit inconclusive if they have been hit. Lewis was something like 50 seconds off Max. He said if Max could make a gap of 30 seconds then everything is normal, but this is a bit more.

No one addressed this yet but
a) he very clearly meant the field, not his team
and more importantly
b) he was joking, he said it with a wry smile and started laughing and continued with "but... no"
To somehow construct this as "Merc suffered from the TD" is a teeny tiny bit far fetched, isn't it?

[Sieper]

We are certainly going to watch out for that. Merc wasn’t as competitive here as they have been in some other races so for me it is a bit inconclusive if they have been hit. Lewis was something like 50 seconds off Max. He said if Max could make a gap of 30 seconds then everything is normal, but this is a bit more.

No one addressed this yet but
a) he very clearly meant the field, not his team
and more importantly
b) he was joking, he said it with a wry smile and started laughing and continued with "but... no"
To somehow construct this as "Merc suffered from the TD" is a teeny tiny bit far fetched, isn't it?

You can’t judge that based on one race. We will have to see. But this was a reaction on PZ who was pushing exactly this message but then aimed at RBR in this thread. Hamilton always says things to guide the press and his fanbase into a certain direction, but it is ofc always a joke. Haha. Doesn’t really matter if meant as a joke or not, as it has had that effect.

I don’t think it is very fair to suggest someone has to gap 30 secs and otherwise is a cheater (and the title is worthless, which also was literally already posted preemptively by someone in the redbull team thread during Singapore weekend).

[dans79]

Hamilton always says things to guide the press and his fanbase into a certain direction, but it is ofc always a joke. Haha. Doesn’t really matter if meant as a joke or not, as it has had that effect.

Lets not go down the road of what Drivers and TP's say having an effect, because some other drivers and TP are fare worse!

[RZS10]

When someone takes a joke literally and then turns it as an argument to support their view i personally don't engage with that opinion, i just wonder why one would then spin it further, at first glance unironically.

Either way, veering further and further off topic with this but here's the full official transcript from the presser :
https://www.fia.com/news/f1-2023-japane ... transcript

I have no clue. I would think that, if they're not 30 seconds ahead, like they have done in the past then something's up ... But no, I think that as Checo said [note: it was setup related], it was obviously a difficult weekend, the last one, but their car should be phenomenal here. They’ve been phenomenal all year long. They've aced pretty much every circuit. And I mean, it's going be great to watch that car in general. Normally, you would come here and it’s beautiful to watch the laps that they do, because the whole team as a whole and the drivers are doing an amazing job with the package they have. So, it'll be interesting to see how the weekend goes. I hope that we are closer and I hope they’re not as fast as that 30-second gap they've had in the past.

He's actually full of praise for a competitor and it just shows the sad state of F1 media et al when it gets miscontrued as "Hamilton says if RB doesn't win by 30s they've been cheating" or similar - funnily enough even in jest he was only off by 10 second as Red Bull dominated the race weekend aaaaaaaaand to just about make the turn to on-topic [hello mods]: that means that they likely did not lose any meaningful performance from the two TDs.

edit: changed the wording to better reflect what i meant

[Sieper]

Let’s agree to discard eachothers opinions. Seems the best way forward. He was so full of praise Max was determined to make a point. I guess he didn’t discard Lewis opinion. And to get back on topic. A few people here should perhaps not have been so loud about RBR but instead practice what some have preached to wait a few races to see who was actually hit.