2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[101FlyingDutchman]

They need to improve operations for sure. Pit stops and strategy and even logistics in bringing upgrades to track.
The other teams seem to bring more each race.
Pit stops are consistently 3 seconds. The team have been resting on the laurels of their hey days. Though one could argue that if you are a lonely 4th best and you have good tyre deg, 0.6 seconds to pit stop can be clawed back on the track.

No point in bringing stuff each race of the concept is flawed. With the budget cap and all, it makes no sense to put lipstick on an inherent inefficient pig. Absolutely learn the lessons for next years car so work on floor edges/tunnels etc to get correlation in wind tunnel and find the way to go.

Other than that yes they can very much improve in other areas

[Spoutnik]

[chrisc90]

They didnt acknowledge each other in Parc ferme either. George walks straight past Lewis. This is evident from Georges in-car camera. I dare bet that was a interesting debrief.

[bosyber]

There have been several times on track where Russell didn't seem to want to play the team game when it had potential to lose him some, but be an overall win for the team, though he's often insisted on it when he thinks to gain; surely not unique, but it is rather transparent, and not helping the team at all. Wonder whether drive to survive will have juice

[chrisc90]

Russell is technically fighting for a half decent spot in the WDC dont forget.

5th - Sainz - 150pts (probably out of reach now)
6th - leclerc - 135pts
7th - Norris - 115pts
8th - Russell - 115pts

6th spot is realistically achievable.

[Spoutnik]

Russell is technically fighting for a half decent spot in the WDC dont forget.

5th - Sainz - 150pts (probably out of reach now)
6th - leclerc - 135pts
7th - Norris - 115pts
8th - Russell - 115pts

6th spot is realistically achievable.

He's 75 pts off Hamilton and I don't think he will be able to beat Norris with the new upgrades and both Ferrari...

I have a stupid question to ask regarding Merc performance. They were clear 2nd best in Spain (high DF track with long mid/high speed corners) why were they so far off the pace at Suzuka ?

[dans79]

I have a stupid question to ask regarding Merc performance. They were clear 2nd best in Spain (high DF track with long mid/high speed corners) why were they so far off the pace at Suzuka ?

Its not a maximum DF track, it's an efficiency track. Also keep in mind everyone in front of them has an upgraded floor (where you generate efficient DF).

[Spoutnik]

I have a stupid question to ask regarding Merc performance. They were clear 2nd best in Spain (high DF track with long mid/high speed corners) why were they so far off the pace at Suzuka ?

Its not a maximum DF track, it's an efficiency track. Also keep in mind everyone in front of them has an upgraded floor (where you generate efficient DF).

Yes with S3, but Spain has became one too with the removal of the chicane ?

[dans79]

Yes with S3, but Spain has became one too with the removal of the chicane ?

No not in my opinion, Removing the chicane had made it even more DF dependent.

[Luscion]

Yes with S3, but Spain has became one too with the removal of the chicane ?

No not in my opinion, Removing the chicane had made it even more DF dependent.

Isn't their change in performance due to their front wing upgrade in Silverstone? They were second fastest in Spain, werent really competitive in the high speed corners at Silverstone but became really good in the slow speed corners

[Hammerfist]

Russell is technically fighting for a half decent spot in the WDC dont forget.

5th - Sainz - 150pts (probably out of reach now)
6th - leclerc - 135pts
7th - Norris - 115pts
8th - Russell - 115pts

6th spot is realistically achievable.

He's 75 pts off Hamilton and I don't think he will be able to beat Norris with the new upgrades and both Ferrari...

I have a stupid question to ask regarding Merc performance. They were clear 2nd best in Spain (high DF track with long mid/high speed corners) why were they so far off the pace at Suzuka ?

IMO it's because in Spain they were able to use the HIGH DF configuration after debating it all weekend. In Suzuka the straights are more prominent so they just couldn't. Also Mclaren, Ferrari have improved tremendously since then, have brought more upgrades than Merc. The Ferrari especially is no longer the tire muncher it used to be.

[dans79]

Yes with S3, but Spain has became one too with the removal of the chicane ?

No not in my opinion, Removing the chicane had made it even more DF dependent.

Isn't their change in performance due to their front wing upgrade in Silverstone? They were second fastest in Spain, werent really competitive in the high speed corners at Silverstone but became really good in the slow speed corners

Spain is a high downforce track, because it has a lot of turns requiring maximum downforce. Silverstone has a lot more high speed turns, and longer straits. You can get buy with less df in Silverstone, if your DF is efficient (loose less time on the straits).

Suzuka is a medium df track that places a high emphasis on efficiency. Merc is still not good at this type of track!

[CHT]

They need to improve operations for sure. Pit stops and strategy and even logistics in bringing upgrades to track.
The other teams seem to bring more each race.
Pit stops are consistently 3 seconds. The team have been resting on the laurels of their hey days. Though one could argue that if you are a lonely 4th best and you have good tyre deg, 0.6 seconds to pit stop can be clawed back on the track.

The morale of the team may have hit rock bottom as this is the first time the current Merc team has transient from multiple WDC WCC champions to 3 or 4th in the championship.

I would believe that Toto, as an owner who is paying big bucks to keep Lewis will be furious at the entire team for not producing a proper car, while teams like Mclaren and Ferrari, though not winning as well, seem to be having a much better atmosphere. Perhaps this is some kind of psychological warfare by McLaren and Ferrari.

[PlatinumZealot]

No not in my opinion, Removing the chicane had made it even more DF dependent.

Isn't their change in performance due to their front wing upgrade in Silverstone? They were second fastest in Spain, werent really competitive in the high speed corners at Silverstone but became really good in the slow speed corners

Spain is a high downforce track, because it has a lot of turns requiring maximum downforce. Silverstone has a lot more high speed turns, and longer straits. You can get buy with less df in Silverstone, if your DF is efficient (loose less time on the straits).

Suzuka is a medium df track that places a high emphasis on efficiency. Merc is still not good at this type of track!

Suzuka most importantly wears all four tyres evenly.... And weak point of Merc this year is balance..

[Spoutnik]

They need to improve operations for sure. Pit stops and strategy and even logistics in bringing upgrades to track.
The other teams seem to bring more each race.
Pit stops are consistently 3 seconds. The team have been resting on the laurels of their hey days. Though one could argue that if you are a lonely 4th best and you have good tyre deg, 0.6 seconds to pit stop can be clawed back on the track.

The morale of the team may have hit rock bottom as this is the first time the current Merc team has transient from multiple WDC WCC champions to 3 or 4th in the championship.

I would believe that Toto, as an owner who is paying big bucks to keep Lewis will be furious at the entire team for not producing a proper car, while teams like Mclaren and Ferrari, though not winning as well, seem to be having a much better atmosphere. Perhaps this is some kind of psychological warfare by McLaren and Ferrari.

I don't think it is really. The mood is high at McLaren because they went from P17 to P2 which is a rarely seen turnaround. Furthermore, they don't have yet political issue with their line-up of youngster.

Ferrari had a Williams level car on high DF track at the beginning of the season + was chewing the tires. Now they were 3rd team at Suzuka, at the beginning of the year on such a track they would've fight for P10 with the Alpine. Also, they solved their tires deg issues.
Even if there's some politics with Sainz father + Santander + spanish média, the teamis gathered around the objective of bringing the team back to the top and.beating Merc in the WCC for the 2nd spot. We saw Leclerc comments at Singapore, I don't think Russell would be able to say that.

While at Mercedes the team hasn't move forward this year. The gap to RB is more or less the same, the fundamental issues of the car are still there. There's too much politics between George who is obseded by beating Lewis rather than bringing points home which led to a 75 pts deficit in the WCC which could cost Merc the 2nd place at the end of the year.
More importantly the team don't seem to know - still - where some issues come from. The usual "Friday was a disaster, we will work overnight" is getting usual now. While as Sainz mentioned at Ferrari they improved this year in "how to build up to a competitive setup since Friday", and that's why he was so competitive since Friday.