2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Andres125sx
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Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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organic wrote:
28 Sep 2023, 09:01
Sainz did have a tyre advantage for the final stint after boxing when they did. Sainz said to leave him out if Hamilton had undercut him but it was the wrong call. They lost too much race time and they came out of the pits 8s back from Hamilton so Sainz didn't have enough laps to get into Lewis' DRS and attack. He only had enough time to get into DRS.

It was already too many laps left out. You think carlos' call to wait even longer and lose a ton more race time to Lewis would be worth it? This is basic strategy which you do not grasp Andres

It's hard to discuss logic with you because you will ignore it and choose to just keep building your sainz Vs Leclerc narrative and turning this thread into a complete mess

With your first message back in a while you're already trying to stir the pot. It's despicable

Quite curious that someone who mention basic strategy not being grasp, did not notice Sainz radio was AFTER the decision was made.

The stop should have been on lap 36, or 37 if you don´t want to risk a double pitstop (Leclerc had priority because of track position). But at lap 39, Sainz radio was not to decide strategy, strategy was already ruined at lap 39.

What Sainz should have said, but he´s too polite to be this sincere, is:
Since you´ve ruined my race again, and Lewis will obviously undercut me when I go into pits, let´s try the only posibility to make something good of this mess, and leave me out to build a tire advantage for final laps
But tires were too wasted, so that was not even an option

This is not basic strategy, you need some experience to notice this kind of decisions/options, not too much, but some, so I will not be as rude with you as you were with myself :P

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Xyz22 wrote:
28 Sep 2023, 10:05
So the 676 project will likely involve:

- Completely new chassis with a different SIS placement (RB concept?)
- Revised front end (i guess this is a given considering air flows will be completely different?)
- Completely new rear end (this was officially confirmed by Cardile) which will likely involve the redesign of the rear suspension
- New gearbox case
- New floor and diffuser to adapt to the new concept
- New sidepods?

Hopefully they will be able to recycle all the beam wings and rear wings from this year, or at least some of them, considering how much of the car will be changed next year (budget cap).
The '24 car won't be for lack of trying! (or Sainz, hehe)
A lion must kill its prey.

Xyz22
Xyz22
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
28 Sep 2023, 17:32
Xyz22 wrote:
28 Sep 2023, 10:05
So the 676 project will likely involve:

- Completely new chassis with a different SIS placement (RB concept?)
- Revised front end (i guess this is a given considering air flows will be completely different?)
- Completely new rear end (this was officially confirmed by Cardile) which will likely involve the redesign of the rear suspension
- New gearbox case
- New floor and diffuser to adapt to the new concept
- New sidepods?

Hopefully they will be able to recycle all the beam wings and rear wings from this year, or at least some of them, considering how much of the car will be changed next year (budget cap).
The '24 car won't be for lack of trying! (or Sainz, hehe)
More than anything it highlights the disaster that is the SF 23 :D

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hollus
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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So, timestamps on Sainz's on-board camera:

1:09:21: Discussion of gaps, "push now".
1:09:38: Leclerc enters the pit lane in plain sight for Sainz. Obviously Hamilton too, behind.
1:09:43: Sainz crosses the finish line.
1:09:47: "Box, Carlos, Box" called on the radio. Likely the message happened 3-4 seconds earlier, but likely after he passed the pit lane entry.
1:09:51: Sainz: You want me to box?
1:09:52: "Yeah".
1:10:01: If he undercuts me, let me out.
1:11:08: Sainz just passed 130R in the camera, this message likely was just at corner entry: "stay out, stay out"
1:11:17: Sainz stays out at the pit lane entry.

So... he asked for the "if undercut, leave me out", before one more last chance to pit a lap after Leclerc. And the decision to leave him out came after he asked about it, reverting the original "pit" order, only after it was clear that Hamilton was gaining a lot of time in the out lap. Looking at the timing screens, if he had pitted he would have come out about equal with Hamilton, perhaps ahead. Perhaps doable, but risky.
Rivals, not enemies.

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organic
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Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Seems Ferrari are less concerned about Qatar. Maybe lack of proper low speed corners means less setup compromise is required. Also very long straight plays into sf23's hands


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scuderiabrandon
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Joined: 11 Feb 2023, 08:42

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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organic wrote:
30 Sep 2023, 15:58
Seems Ferrari are less concerned about Qatar. Maybe lack of proper low speed corners means less setup compromise is required. Also very long straight plays into sf23's hands

Well he must know something we don't or they are again not getting the right idea in the sim. Let's remember they thought they'd be weak at Singapore and strong in Hungary.

I'll stick to the data I have acces to and say they'll be quicker than us by a good margin since thats all I can go off as an outsider. I'd imagine he knows more than me though.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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The sprint race format will catch teams out regardless, so Qatar won't necessarily show the full capabilities of each team to the benefit of some, and not others.
A lion must kill its prey.

dialtone
dialtone
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Joined: 25 Feb 2019, 01:31

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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I think Losail will be interesting and maybe even a surprise.

It's different than S1 in Suzuka or Spa. For once in Spa you compromise ride height to get through eau rouge and radillon, but the mix of corners is a bit different too and to an extent it's more like Monza in terms of corner mix.

For example T4-T5 in Losail are kinda similar to the 2 Lesmos, although there's more space in Quatar which actually might help a weaker frontend.
The other area that would suck for Ferrari is T12-13-14 which are high speed corners in succession but they are kinda short radius like Degner and all on the same side, but no question that bad balance will likely not help here.

Keep in mind that in Suzuka, if you took out S1 Ferrari would have been pretty close and the primary reason S1 was crap is due to Ferrari having to brake to make the front tires bite, and then out of T6 again because the lack of frontend didn't allow Ferrari to open the corner up properly. The track in Losail simply doesn't have areas where quick changes in direction at high speed in succession happens, unlike Suzuka or Silverstone where Ferrari would have to slow and slide its front tires.

I hold a little bit of hope. Obviously this isn't a strong track for Ferrari but I don't think they'll be that bad here, especially with the new floor stability they found, will be an interesting test.

Xyz22
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Xyz22 wrote:
01 Oct 2023, 13:08
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/i-ha ... ri-season/

I hate this car so much
Reads quite positive for the future. I honestly can't remember when was the last time Ferrari had a solid development season like this year. Vasseur is doing things differently and if there are no more strategy blunders from the wall (in hindsight, neither Singapore nor Japan were wall blunders as it turned out) that would be a very positive development. I'll never forget 2022 Brasil Q3 and Leclerc going out on inters before it started raining, that was a very telling sign of things to come this year...

We can safely say Binotto's Ferrari would have given up on the car before the first race and focused on 2024 - even if that is exactly what brought them to this situation. They simply missed the chance to try different things in the second part of last season and find out more about development direction they were pursuing.
AeroGimli.x

And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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ringo
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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There was a discussion here montha ago on the reasons for the tyre deg. Theories on suspension and cycles and others on floor downforce.
It seems that new floor and downforce solved the bulk of Ferrari's deg problems.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mer ... 0527734/
For Sure!!

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organic
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Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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I think it was more the Austria upgrade and then improvements with understanding incrementally

The good tyre deg has been around for longer than just Suzuka. Monza for instance showed Ferrari having only marginally worse degradation than RB who carried more df that race and have been class of the field in terms of tyres this year

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ringo
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Yes agreed. There have been little aero upgrades along the way. But no sign of new suspension as was theorized as the remedy.
A lot about these F1 cars is enhanced by downforce and PU capacity.
For Sure!!

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scuderiabrandon
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Joined: 11 Feb 2023, 08:42

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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They still need to find the odd 0.5-0.7s per lap in race trim before we can call it 'solved'. The deg has improved but at the cost of more strict tyre management in the race. If it puts us ahead of Mercedes for the time being, good but RB are still far away.

If they feel like there are more inherit issues casuing this problem i.e suspension, floor etc I believe we can be more optimistic for next season.

jambuka
jambuka
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Joined: 24 Feb 2023, 07:52

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Tire deg will only be solved if we see a new suspension in 24. Also Honda will improve their engine for 24. Hope Ferrari can improve as well.