2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[Slahinki]

Toyota,

McLaren did state that they and Toyota wanted to expand their relationship after the contract with the wind tunnel expired. It appears the relationship is one that will expand over time. One article I have read this week discusses a "drivers' development program." The statement by Toyota does not rule out any further cooperation in the future. So I would not expect any announcement any time soon.

According to RBR AN, he has reservations as to whether engine suppliers running their own team will provide customers with equal equipment when fighting for championship. Which is why they decided to start their own power unit division with funding from Ford. Unfortunately for Mclaren, they are too small to embark on such a costly and ambitious project.

I am not sure why there i a misconception about Ford's involvement. Articles I have read state that Ford will be developing the electrical component of the PU and Red Bull the ICE. I would hazard to guess that Ford will be consulting on the development of the ICE as well.... at least I would hope, or I will have real trepidation for Red Bull post 2026. Anyway, I would not be surprise if GMs interest in joining F1 has anything to do with Ford's entry to F!!!

If Mercedes HPP is providing different PU for different teams then they are defrauding the FIA, so I doubt they would brazenly cheat their customers. I doubt, Mercedes Group, the parent company, would be too keen to have that happen given Mercedes' reputation for quality.

On a side note, it is a curiosity that McLaren never embarked on their own development of a F1 engine. Their "street car" is considered one of, if not the best, cars on the market. That being said, unlike Lamborghini, they do not have a hybrid car. Anyway, this seems to be out of the question, but I am curious why.

Anyway, Toyota are on the forefront of alternative engine development, so their re-entry into F1 does make sense conceptually, but does it make sense financially or from a marketing standpoint?

The McLaren Artura is a hybrid, as was the P1. But yeah, it is a bit odd McLaren never went with their own engine program, even back in the tobacco sponsorship days when the team was flush with money.

[PikeStance]

Toyota,

McLaren did state that they and Toyota wanted to expand their relationship after the contract with the wind tunnel expired. It appears the relationship is one that will expand over time. One article I have read this week discusses a "drivers' development program." The statement by Toyota does not rule out any further cooperation in the future. So I would not expect any announcement any time soon.

According to RBR AN, he has reservations as to whether engine suppliers running their own team will provide customers with equal equipment when fighting for championship. Which is why they decided to start their own power unit division with funding from Ford. Unfortunately for Mclaren, they are too small to embark on such a costly and ambitious project.

I am not sure why there i a misconception about Ford's involvement. Articles I have read state that Ford will be developing the electrical component of the PU and Red Bull the ICE. I would hazard to guess that Ford will be consulting on the development of the ICE as well.... at least I would hope, or I will have real trepidation for Red Bull post 2026. Anyway, I would not be surprise if GMs interest in joining F1 has anything to do with Ford's entry to F!!!

If Mercedes HPP is providing different PU for different teams then they are defrauding the FIA, so I doubt they would brazenly cheat their customers. I doubt, Mercedes Group, the parent company, would be too keen to have that happen given Mercedes' reputation for quality.

On a side note, it is a curiosity that McLaren never embarked on their own development of a F1 engine. Their "street car" is considered one of, if not the best, cars on the market. That being said, unlike Lamborghini, they do not have a hybrid car. Anyway, this seems to be out of the question, but I am curious why.

Anyway, Toyota are on the forefront of alternative engine development, so their re-entry into F1 does make sense conceptually, but does it make sense financially or from a marketing standpoint?

The McLaren Artura is a hybrid, as was the P1. But yeah, it is a bit odd McLaren never went with their own engine program, even back in the tobacco sponsorship days when the team was flush with money.

Yeah, I wasn't sure.
FYI for everyone, https://cars.mclaren.com/en/artura

[Darth-Piekus]

As I said before it is a big risk to change from one of the most successful engines to something we don't know if it will deliver immediately. We can't risk another Honda not to mention Toyota could not deliver last time they were in F1 despite spending over 4 billion dollars in their time. Lando has given the team an ultimatum even if he said it in a friendly way and I am not sure the fans want to see another disaster. On the other hand Toyota might create an engine that is leagues better in terms of speed and reliability than the rest and the risk might give us success. Nobody knows.

[101FlyingDutchman]

I’ve got a feeling that over time we may well end up as a works team with our own engine. Thinking of the road car division, it’ll then put us on par with other supercar manufacturers. But clearly not anytime soon

[mwillems]

I’ve got a feeling that over time we may well end up as a works team with our own engine. Thinking of the road car division, it’ll then put us on par with other supercar manufacturers. But clearly not anytime soon

I'm sure at some point but im not sure there is a rush. It's good from a financial perspective but makes little difference for Competiveness.

The suggestion that Merc is breaking rules on engine party to anything but a marginal degree doesn't wash with me, nor do I think they'd risk the brand and F1 credibility to do so.

The days where works teams mattered are gone.

[CHT]

I’ve got a feeling that over time we may well end up as a works team with our own engine. Thinking of the road car division, it’ll then put us on par with other supercar manufacturers. But clearly not anytime soon

Mclaren's road car division is not exactly profitable and the supre/hypercar market is slowing moving towards full electric. So it's unlikely McLaren will start a powertrain division purely for F1 purposes. As I read, Mclaren is actively looking for a partner to electrify their cars and Toyota does have some advanced battery technology which may be of interest to Mclaren.

[PikeStance]

I’ve got a feeling that over time we may well end up as a works team with our own engine. Thinking of the road car division, it’ll then put us on par with other supercar manufacturers. But clearly not anytime soon

Mclaren's road car division is not exactly profitable and the supre/hypercar market is slowing moving towards full electric. So it's unlikely McLaren will start a powertrain division purely for F1 purposes. As I read, Mclaren is actively looking for a partner to electrify their cars and Toyota does have some advanced battery technology which may be of interest to Mclaren.

I haven't seen any profit reports, but according to this reporthttps://investors.mclaren.com/~/media/F ... tation.pdf, sales are up.

I think a more likely scenario is that Toyota will not be a pure powertrain supplier. It is possible that Toyota and Mclaren could develop a collaborative relationship. They may collaborate in a number of different areas, such as driver development and powertrains. Toyota can provide technical knowledge and capital and work cooperatively with McLaren. This could explain the visit to Red Bulls' powertrain plant. It was probably an effort to learn how to start up their own plant. I would guess the capital and technical knowledge needed was more than Mclaren racing could achieve. A partnership with another company, like Toyota, could provide that. It is also possible that Toyota and Mclaren would combine their efforts within racing. This is speculative, but it does fit with what we know.

[FittingMechanics]

I fully reject the idea you can't be a champion without being a works team. This may have been true in the past, even though there are examples where that is not true (Red Bull and Renault) but today that is no longer the case.

Engines need to be the same power/same engine modes.
There is a cost cap so major benefit of being a works team is negated, you can't outspend your opponents.
Red Bull proved it can be done
McLaren proves they can be faster than Mercedes (part of this year)

If I was McLaren, their goal needs to be to consistently beat Mercedes and then and only then should they entertain ideas about changing their engines. With how things work today, it is unlikely any engine is significantly better and the risk involved with switching to Toyota outweighs potential benefits.

[MrGapes]

https://www.mclaren.com/racing/formula- ... nd-tunnel/

[bauc]

https://www.mclaren.com/racing/formula- ... nd-tunnel/

Now lets build a race winning car!

[PikeStance]

I fully reject the idea you can't be a champion without being a works team. This may have been true in the past, even though there are examples where that is not true (Red Bull and Renault) but today that is no longer the case.

I don't see how this was ever a thing.

If I was McLaren, their goal needs to be to consistently beat Mercedes and then and only then should they entertain ideas about changing their engines. With how things work today, it is unlikely any engine is significantly better and the risk involved with switching to Toyota outweighs potential benefits.

With the n regulations in 2026, it's a crap shoot.
I mean the best bet is Mercedes and Honda. You could argue that Audi may be on par as well. In theory, Ferrari should be better and Renault had their moments. The Wildcard is Re Bull/Ford.
Toyota has been at the forefront of alternative power units and combined with McLaren, they could, in theory, be able to create a competitive car. It is all crap soot though... any assumptions you make will be based entirely on past performances and that is not a good indicator of success or failure. There is NO safe bet!

[mwillems]

https://www.mclaren.com/racing/formula- ... nd-tunnel/

I'm assuming what this means is that the first elements of the 24 car to be tested have gone into the tunnel.

[CHT]

https://www.mclaren.com/racing/formula- ... nd-tunnel/

I'm assuming what this means is that the first elements of the 24 car to be tested have gone into the tunnel.

This is timely. Mclaren will be a team to watch out next year I am sure

[_cerber1]

https://www.mclaren.com/racing/formula- ... nd-tunnel/

I don't quite understand, have they just started using it now? It seems that they wrote earlier that she was already in work

[Ground Effect]

https://www.mclaren.com/racing/formula- ... nd-tunnel/

I'm assuming what this means is that the first elements of the 24 car to be tested have gone into the tunnel.

That was my assumption as well. I’m also assuming none of the 2023 upgrades, even the last batch was done in the new wind tunnel?