2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[FDD]

AR3 is right that Ferrari need a massive miracle to compete with RB in 2024.
That is because they lost a year of development, therefore they will have to recover almost 1s of performance + whatever RB will find with the RB20 in the same timeframe as RB.

The SF 23 is not even a real evolution of the F1 75, because it's better in some areas but worse in others. Just a massive failure of a project.

If we go back in history, it is pretty much impossible to find a dominant team being challenged the following year with no minor/major changes to the regulations.

I think that realistic scenario to expect is winning on some races, nothing more than that.
To me about 5 "real" wins will be excellent result.

[Xyz22]

AR3 is right that Ferrari need a massive miracle to compete with RB in 2024.
That is because they lost a year of development, therefore they will have to recover almost 1s of performance + whatever RB will find with the RB20 in the same timeframe as RB.

The SF 23 is not even a real evolution of the F1 75, because it's better in some areas but worse in others. Just a massive failure of a project.

If we go back in history, it is pretty much impossible to find a dominant team being challenged the following year with no minor/major changes to the regulations.

I think that realistic scenario to expect is winning on some races, nothing more than that.
To me about 5 "real" wins will be excellent result.

In the last 15 years Ferrari have won 5 or more races only in 2010, 2017 and 2018. Winning a linear race on pure pace means that Ferrari must build a car faster than the RB20 in specific tracks. It would still require a miracle.

[dialtone]

Yes, everyone is aware it's going to be very hard to bridge that gap. However McLaren bridged a much bigger gap this year in a few months. I would wait the first race of the year, or at least testing, before I'm ready to call total and complete defeat even for next year.

[Xyz22]

Yes, everyone is aware it's going to be very hard to bridge that gap. However McLaren bridged a much bigger gap this year in a few months. I would wait the first race of the year, or at least testing, before I'm ready to call total and complete defeat even for next year.

While McL have done a tremendous job (because also the second upgrade they brought was really good) it's clear that the first spec of the 2023 car was just the 2022 one adapted to the new floor and diffuser rules. So it's a bit difficult to make a 1:1 comparison...

Of course is also clear that there is a lot of room for improvement. Having said that, i'm not expecting to compete with RB for the WDC. That would require a miracle pretty much never before seen in F1, because the benchmark is far away (even compared to McL). Hopefully it will happen though, would make me quite happy

[AR3-GP]

Yes, everyone is aware it's going to be very hard to bridge that gap. However McLaren bridged a much bigger gap this year in a few months. I would wait the first race of the year, or at least testing, before I'm ready to call total and complete defeat even for next year.

No one is calling defeat, we're not oracles. It is only a presentation of the gap that must be overcome. From here, Ferrari can only exceed expectations. They have more windtunnel hours than Merc, Aston, and RB so the gap should reduce.

[dialtone]

Yes, everyone is aware it's going to be very hard to bridge that gap. However McLaren bridged a much bigger gap this year in a few months. I would wait the first race of the year, or at least testing, before I'm ready to call total and complete defeat even for next year.

While McL have done a tremendous job (because also the second upgrade they brought was really good) it's clear that the first spec of the 2023 car was just the 2022 one adapted to the new floor and diffuser rules. So it's a bit difficult to make a 1:1 comparison...

I think it's pretty 1:1. Ferrari has figured out their car was kinda crap at testing, they are spending this season to save face but have been on the next year car quite early, even by number of updates to this car.

Of course is also clear that there is a lot of room for improvement. Having said that, i'm not expecting to compete with RB for the WDC. That would require a miracle pretty much never before seen in F1, because the benchmark is far away (even compared to McL). Hopefully it will happen though, would make me quite happy

Yeah, I'm not expecting a WDC fight lol . Just want to stay optimist.

[F1NAC]

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/i-ha ... ri-season/

I hate this car so much

Reads quite positive for the future. I honestly can't remember when was the last time Ferrari had a solid development season like this year. Vasseur is doing things differently and if there are no more strategy blunders from the wall (in hindsight, neither Singapore nor Japan were wall blunders as it turned out) that would be a very positive development. I'll never forget 2022 Brasil Q3 and Leclerc going out on inters before it started raining, that was a very telling sign of things to come this year...

We can safely say Binotto's Ferrari would have given up on the car before the first race and focused on 2024 - even if that is exactly what brought them to this situation. They simply missed the chance to try different things in the second part of last season and find out more about development direction they were pursuing.

Head of the strat is the same as it was during Binotto reign. So I doubt there will be any significant improvement until they add/remove some people there

[scuderiabrandon]

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/i-ha ... ri-season/

I hate this car so much

Reads quite positive for the future. I honestly can't remember when was the last time Ferrari had a solid development season like this year. Vasseur is doing things differently and if there are no more strategy blunders from the wall (in hindsight, neither Singapore nor Japan were wall blunders as it turned out) that would be a very positive development. I'll never forget 2022 Brasil Q3 and Leclerc going out on inters before it started raining, that was a very telling sign of things to come this year...

We can safely say Binotto's Ferrari would have given up on the car before the first race and focused on 2024 - even if that is exactly what brought them to this situation. They simply missed the chance to try different things in the second part of last season and find out more about development direction they were pursuing.

Head of the strat is the same as it was during Binotto reign. So I doubt there will be any significant improvement until they add/remove some people there

We are obviously not aware of any changes that happen in the background, not all the changes get announced

[Xyz22]

I'm quite worried about one thing still, that is the trend related to the significant performance gap between cars in qualifying trim and their performance in race trim. This disparity has been particularly pronounced in 2019, 2020, and 2023, where the performance gap between Ferrari and other competitors in races has widened significantly compared to the gaps seen in qualifying sessions.

[dialtone]

I'm quite worried about one thing still, that is the trend related to the significant performance gap between cars in qualifying trim and their performance in race trim. This disparity has been particularly pronounced in 2019, 2020, and 2023, where the performance gap between Ferrari and other competitors in races has widened significantly compared to the gaps seen in qualifying sessions.

Not in the last couple of races actually. And given Singapore is hard to tell given the weird race, in Suzuka Ferrari qualified and raced where it belonged.

The change in setup has made it so they heat their tires less in quali which gives an edge in the race but worse quali.

[Xyz22]

I'm quite worried about one thing still, that is the trend related to the significant performance gap between cars in qualifying trim and their performance in race trim. This disparity has been particularly pronounced in 2019, 2020, and 2023, where the performance gap between Ferrari and other competitors in races has widened significantly compared to the gaps seen in qualifying sessions.

Not in the last couple of races actually. And given Singapore is hard to tell given the weird race, in Suzuka Ferrari qualified and raced where it belonged.

The change in setup has made it so they heat their tires less in quali which gives an edge in the race but worse quali.

The gap to McL was still much bigger in the race compared to qualifying, though.
Overall, the situation improved, but still far from being ideal.

The SF 70H is like the last car that performed in the opposite way, i believe.

[scuderiabrandon]

I'm quite worried about one thing still, that is the trend related to the significant performance gap between cars in qualifying trim and their performance in race trim. This disparity has been particularly pronounced in 2019, 2020, and 2023, where the performance gap between Ferrari and other competitors in races has widened significantly compared to the gaps seen in qualifying sessions.

Not in the last couple of races actually. And given Singapore is hard to tell given the weird race, in Suzuka Ferrari qualified and raced where it belonged.

The change in setup has made it so they heat their tires less in quali which gives an edge in the race but worse quali.

The gap to McL was still much bigger in the race compared to qualifying, though.
Overall, the situation improved, but still far from being ideal.

The SF 70H is like the last car that performed in the opposite way, i believe.

Both McLarens had another 2 tenths in the bag in qualy where neither drivers could put it together, I believe Piastri was up 0.2s in S1 alone.

If I recall correctly CL did his ideal lap on the last Q3 lap. If anything it shows how hard it is to be a consistently good qualifier.

[Xyz22]

Not in the last couple of races actually. And given Singapore is hard to tell given the weird race, in Suzuka Ferrari qualified and raced where it belonged.

The change in setup has made it so they heat their tires less in quali which gives an edge in the race but worse quali.

The gap to McL was still much bigger in the race compared to qualifying, though.
Overall, the situation improved, but still far from being ideal.

The SF 70H is like the last car that performed in the opposite way, i believe.

Both McLarens had another 2 tenths in the bag in qualy where neither drivers could put it together, I believe Piastri was up 0.2s in S1 alone.

If I recall correctly CL did his ideal lap on the last Q3 lap. If anything it shows how hard it is to be a consistently good qualifier.

Maybe they could have gone quicker in quali, but Norris had a massive advantage in the race on Lec/Sai (way bigger than 0.2s).

[scuderiabrandon]

The gap to McL was still much bigger in the race compared to qualifying, though.
Overall, the situation improved, but still far from being ideal.

The SF 70H is like the last car that performed in the opposite way, i believe.

Both McLarens had another 2 tenths in the bag in qualy where neither drivers could put it together, I believe Piastri was up 0.2s in S1 alone.

If I recall correctly CL did his ideal lap on the last Q3 lap. If anything it shows how hard it is to be a consistently good qualifier.

Maybe they could have gone quicker in quali, but Norris had a massive advantage in the race on Ferrari (way bigger than 0.2s).

They also had a different tyre allocation. And even if you factor out the tyre advantage they have there is still a good chunk of raw performance in that gap, it is not all tyre.

I agree I think they aren't at the point where they are able to push for 57 laps but even with pretty heavy management the pace is on par with Mercedes and Aston two teams who have had better tyre performance all year.

[CouncilorIrissa]

I'm quite worried about one thing still, that is the trend related to the significant performance gap between cars in qualifying trim and their performance in race trim. This disparity has been particularly pronounced in 2019, 2020, and 2023, where the performance gap between Ferrari and other competitors in races has widened significantly compared to the gaps seen in qualifying sessions.

Not in the last couple of races actually. And given Singapore is hard to tell given the weird race, in Suzuka Ferrari qualified and raced where it belonged.

The change in setup has made it so they heat their tires less in quali which gives an edge in the race but worse quali.

The gap to McL was still much bigger in the race compared to qualifying, though.
Overall, the situation improved, but still far from being ideal.

The SF 70H is like the last car that performed in the opposite way, i believe.

Yeah, it all started as early as 2018 Chinese GP. Ferrari had enormous one-lap advantage over Mercedes (half a second I believe) that just disappeared come the race day. The car was slower than both Mercedes (even in the hands of Bottas) and RB. I remember being very bewildered by that. Who knew that that was a sign of things to come…

Also wanted to say hi to everyone who frequents this topic, I’ve been in read-only for many years, but finally decided to join.