2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[organic]

Antonelli is doing f2 next year already. Skipping F3 entirely, despite not completely dominating freca

Considering Hamilton is sticking around for at least until the end of 2026, what are they rushing Antonelli for? There will be at least 3 more seasons until the possibility of a Merc seat opens

It could end up in a bit of a mess

It's not confirmed that he's doing F2 next season. There's an article (either formula-passion or formula_uno) where Toto suggest they are not rushing things. He'll probably do F3.

Mercedes historically doesn't debut rookies anyway.

He didn't participate in the F3 post-season test which was run @ Jerez a few days ago. A title favourite going in as a rookie would be doing all of the available testing mileage. All of the other title contenders and plenty of other future F3 rookies took part. To me that seems to confirm the F2 decision

Indeed historically they've been able to loan the driver. But I would say the grid is changing in a way that means getting junior drivers a seat in say a Williams may not be so easy. A flatter grid is forming

[denyall]

I think you all are reading way too much into these comments from the team.

Do you really think Mercedes would come out and say we have no idea what we're doing?

They have done that several times in the past.

What is your take on the comments? What they say to the press is all we have to go off of.

My take is that the comments are more nuanced than the media is portraying.

For example, if they have no desire to carry over suspension geometry then there would be little to no benefit in working to understand the W14 geometry. In this case it would be accurate for the team to say they don't understand the W14 (because they don't care) and also not be utterly confused about these regulations because the DO feel they understand the W15 and there path for 2024.

It's also totally acceptable to bring a floor that is a beta test for 2024 under the 2023 cost cap and evaluate it to ensure they are on the right path. If it works as expected it's a validation and if it doesn't it helps them avoid another two seasons on the back foot. Either way it's worth it.

The driver position is critical to the feel of the car, and it's been obvious that Lewis does not have the feel and thus can't push as hard as he otherwise might.

The zero pod had so many compromises (packaging, cooling, driver position, wake management, etc) that it makes sense for Merc to forget about trying to understand the car with all these constraints that won't exist in 2024.

[CHT]

I think you all are reading way too much into these comments from the team.

Do you really think Mercedes would come out and say we have no idea what we're doing?

They have done that several times in the past.

What is your take on the comments? What they say to the press is all we have to go off of.

My take is that the comments are more nuanced than the media is portraying.

For example, if they have no desire to carry over suspension geometry then there would be little to no benefit in working to understand the W14 geometry. In this case it would be accurate for the team to say they don't understand the W14 (because they don't care) and also not be utterly confused about these regulations because the DO feel they understand the W15 and there path for 2024.

It's also totally acceptable to bring a floor that is a beta test for 2024 under the 2023 cost cap and evaluate it to ensure they are on the right path. If it works as expected it's a validation and if it doesn't it helps them avoid another two seasons on the back foot. Either way it's worth it.

The driver position is critical to the feel of the car, and it's been obvious that Lewis does not have the feel and thus can't push as hard as he otherwise might.

The zero pod had so many compromises (packaging, cooling, driver position, wake management, etc) that it makes sense for Merc to forget about trying to understand the car with all these constraints that won't exist in 2024.

Merc must sort out the wind tunnel and simulator issue. without that, it will be difficult.

[Henri]

The ferrari rumors where true .. i think 2026 if Mercedes are not competitive.. ferrari and ashton i good options i want for him

[Espresso]

I know they said they will change the cockpit position for Hamilton, but what could they be referring to regarding the "suspension mechanisms we don't understand"?

Because the bloody inherent Problem wasn‘t the Zero pod concept and/or cockpit position…but MB not understanding suspension characteristics and high speed stall.

That cannot be solved in a static windtunnel test. They start to understand a bit what went wrong.

[Vanja #66]

Because the bloody inherent Problem wasn‘t the Zero pod concept and/or cockpit position…but MB not understanding suspension characteristics and high speed stall.

That cannot be solved in a static windtunnel test. They start to understand a bit what went wrong.

Zero pods and overly aggressive floor design were most definitely the biggest problems in Bahrain 2022. Even with the introduction of less aggressive floor in 2022 Barcelona weekend the aero instability problems persisted and carried over until the Monaco race this year, so it was never about the suspension itself. The high drag of the car also came from zero pods and mid wing, which was optimised on the launch W14. It's 99.99% sure thing we won't see the mid wing on W15, since it is not compatible with downwash sidepods Merc is now pursuing, so W15 won't have an inherit drag problem.

[Henri]

W15 needs to find 1sec or 8 tenths to compete with redbull.. McLaren found 1.4 sec in upgrades

[K1Plus]

W15 needs to find 1sec or 8 tenths to compete with redbull.. McLaren found 1.4 sec in upgrades

What would the order be like if we consider post summer break pace? I reckon Mercedes and McLaren would be equal.

[ringo]

W15 needs to find 1sec or 8 tenths to compete with redbull.. McLaren found 1.4 sec in upgrades

In response to the tweet or X, or whatever it goes by these days, It has to match because points are determined by finishing order which is determined by pace.

I think mercedes need to find half a second more than what can be gleaned from race statistics. Max is rarely pushing. The pace is being managed 80% of the time. When I see the RB19 slide all over the track and locking up thats when i beleive I am seeing it's ultimate pace.

[PlatinumZealot]

Max is driving it in it's sweet spot. We only saw them struggle in Singapore and that was for all fo two sessions. Mercedes must pull a binder for 2024.

[Cs98]

Antonelli is doing f2 next year already. Skipping F3 entirely, despite not completely dominating freca

Considering Hamilton is sticking around for at least until the end of 2026, what are they rushing Antonelli for? There will be at least 3 more seasons until the possibility of a Merc seat opens

It could end up in a bit of a mess

He is dominating FRECA. F2 is right for him given the new cars are coming in.

[chrisc90]

Max is driving it in it's sweet spot. We only saw them struggle in Singapore and that was for all fo two sessions. Mercedes must pull a binder for 2024.

I think it would be more than a blinder to pull out the hat to be fair.
Its a HUGE jump for Mercedes to roll up to 2024 with a whole new concept to what they have ran/developed/have experience on over the last 2.5years. 6-8months on the current W15/2024 development at present.

Its going to be a VERY interesting winter for development for them, and I think we might get 'some' idea come pre-season testing where they are.

With the changes they are bringing, I have a feeling there will be some on-track learning to do once the '24 season kicks off and it would be miraculous if they bring a minimum of 1/2 second to the table in race pace.

[AR3-GP]

The ferrari rumors where true .. i think 2026 if Mercedes are not competitive.. ferrari and ashton i good options i want for him

Yes this is much more than what I imagined. Dinner with Elkann? Hamilton was certainly curious...

[CHT]

The ferrari rumors where true .. i think 2026 if Mercedes are not competitive.. ferrari and ashton i good options i want for him

Yes this is much more than what I imagined. Dinner with Elkann? Hamilton was certainly curious...

LH is a valuable brand ambassador for Merc for sure the team will want him to retire at Merc instead of Ferrari.
The fact that LH signed a 2-year contract means he has an option for 2026. There is no such thing as loyalty in F1, its all about money and championship.

Seeing how Marc Márquez quit Honda to join Ducati's 2nd team, I am sure LH will be thinking of the same in 2026.

[AR3-GP]

Max is driving it in it's sweet spot. We only saw them struggle in Singapore and that was for all fo two sessions. Mercedes must pull a binder for 2024.

Newey's binder?

I could not resist...