Their biggest problem the floor. Obviously the new floor wasnt working so they went back to before Canada spec,only the diffuser is new.If they don't understand why the new floor not working,then they really in trouble for 2024.
Bisonas wrote: ↑19 Nov 2023, 14:20Well maybe he thought of it, tested the grip (as you say) and visualized it in his brain, we can't possible know or be sure about it.KimiRai wrote: ↑19 Nov 2023, 10:54Drops had just begun to fall, it was windy, and the weather forecast was between 14ºC and 18ºC so not too different from Vegas. You are right that it wasn't a street circuit and we know how dirty they can be so I grant you that it was likely an ever bigger risk. But I think the thought process was similar from him in both starts. Now this is just my speculation but when he tries these things it's because he tested them before in practice, so if that happened it's possible the lack of grip surprised him, but we don't know that yetBisonas wrote: ↑19 Nov 2023, 10:47
i don't think we can draw a parallel with Zadvoort because Zabdvoort isn't a street circuit, isn't a night race, nor happening in such cold conditions. I don't know how we can draw a parallel with Zadvoort.
It's common sense that the inside of turn1 will be very very dirty and very very slippery, especially at the start of the race.
I insist though that the nature of this circuit should prohibit such visualizations for a driver with Alonso's experience
It's more likely, that he was eager (as you said) to get ahead of the Williams in order NOT TO get stuck behind it in the first stint and eagerness led him to misjudge a bit the t1 approach.
Watching the replays, it is clear that he really tried and wanted to make that corner. It wasn't a complete dive bomb he really tried to brake & make the turn but grip just wasn't there, entry speed and angle was too much for the car to handle and the rear just snapped. The way the car spanned it was like dancing in the ice. It was a very risky move nonetheless.
How do you know the floor isn't being used? or do you mean the outside edge floor?OnEcRiTiCaL wrote: ↑22 Nov 2023, 18:42Their biggest problem the floor. Obviously the new floor wasnt working so they went back to before Canada spec,only the diffuser is new.If they don't understand why the new floor not working,then they really in trouble for 2024.
The floor is probably the one piece that gives the least amount of drag per level of DF it creates. So from a drag perspective I don't think they're trying to decrease drag at the floor. Now if you're suggesting that they're trying to increase DF with the floor, so that they can run less wing, I'll say "OK". I have no idea what floor they're running. The only floor we've seen was the pictures in SPA. Those pictures weren't great.We haven't seen any floor pictures after that and if we did I'm not sure we'd be able to tell them apart from those pictures.OnEcRiTiCaL wrote: ↑22 Nov 2023, 18:42Their biggest problem the floor. Obviously the new floor wasnt working so they went back to before Canada spec,only the diffuser is new.If they don't understand why the new floor not working,then they really in trouble for 2024.
Maybe they have some changeable elements...but you are right, the floor has an upper and lower side and the old upper side would simply not fit the bodywork.diffuser wrote: ↑23 Nov 2023, 07:04The floor is probably the one piece that gives the least amount of drag per level of DF it creates. So from a drag perspective I don't think they're trying to decrease drag at the floor. Now if you're suggesting that they're trying to increase DF with the floor, so that they can run less wing, I'll say "OK". I have no idea what floor they're running. The only floor we've seen was the pictures in SPA. Those pictures weren't great.We haven't seen any floor pictures after that and if we did I'm not sure we'd be able to tell them apart from those pictures.OnEcRiTiCaL wrote: ↑22 Nov 2023, 18:42Their biggest problem the floor. Obviously the new floor wasnt working so they went back to before Canada spec,only the diffuser is new.If they don't understand why the new floor not working,then they really in trouble for 2024.
The last floor they made was ment to run with the kickless side pods and that whole new floor edge, I doudt they could use that floor to work with the different sidepods.
They used the new floor, but except Zandvoort it was a downgrade. What I meant if they can't figure out why in the simulator was good but at track not,then they are in trouble for 2024. Of course they now went back to the old floor,but is not a sulution.diffuser wrote: ↑23 Nov 2023, 00:56How do you know the floor isn't being used? or do you mean the outside edge floor?OnEcRiTiCaL wrote: ↑22 Nov 2023, 18:42Their biggest problem the floor. Obviously the new floor wasnt working so they went back to before Canada spec,only the diffuser is new.If they don't understand why the new floor not working,then they really in trouble for 2024.
Yes you are right ,the floor doesn't make much drag, but downforce. Aston had good downforce at low speed because of flexible wing. Since is banned the floor alone can't make enough downforce (vacuum) at low speed like Redbull. That's why they was nowhere in Hungary. If they could make more downforce just with the floor,then they could use smaller wings just like Redbull.diffuser wrote: ↑23 Nov 2023, 07:04The floor is probably the one piece that gives the least amount of drag per level of DF it creates. So from a drag perspective I don't think they're trying to decrease drag at the floor. Now if you're suggesting that they're trying to increase DF with the floor, so that they can run less wing, I'll say "OK". I have no idea what floor they're running. The only floor we've seen was the pictures in SPA. Those pictures weren't great.We haven't seen any floor pictures after that and if we did I'm not sure we'd be able to tell them apart from those pictures.OnEcRiTiCaL wrote: ↑22 Nov 2023, 18:42Their biggest problem the floor. Obviously the new floor wasnt working so they went back to before Canada spec,only the diffuser is new.If they don't understand why the new floor not working,then they really in trouble for 2024.
The last floor they made was ment to run with the kickless side pods and that whole new floor edge, I doudt they could use that floor to work with the different sidepods.
I'm of the persuasion that the kick-less sidepods, floor edge that went with it and everything that they ran was an attempt to get that to work for 2023. They had their suspicions that they'd get it wrong, so the backup plan was of to run rakes to get the aero data need to feed the simulations and tunnels and get it to work for 2024.basti313 wrote: ↑23 Nov 2023, 09:21Maybe they have some changeable elements...but you are right, the floor has an upper and lower side and the old upper side would simply not fit the bodywork.diffuser wrote: ↑23 Nov 2023, 07:04The floor is probably the one piece that gives the least amount of drag per level of DF it creates. So from a drag perspective I don't think they're trying to decrease drag at the floor. Now if you're suggesting that they're trying to increase DF with the floor, so that they can run less wing, I'll say "OK". I have no idea what floor they're running. The only floor we've seen was the pictures in SPA. Those pictures weren't great.We haven't seen any floor pictures after that and if we did I'm not sure we'd be able to tell them apart from those pictures.OnEcRiTiCaL wrote: ↑22 Nov 2023, 18:42
Their biggest problem the floor. Obviously the new floor wasnt working so they went back to before Canada spec,only the diffuser is new.If they don't understand why the new floor not working,then they really in trouble for 2024.
The last floor they made was ment to run with the kickless side pods and that whole new floor edge, I doudt they could use that floor to work with the different sidepods.
But I think it is more the setup. We saw a strong upward curve in McLaren and in Haas with the new aero. Maybe it is simply the Merc rear end.
Aston Martin evaluated "various configurations" in both sessions today. Regarding the sidepod/floor part, Drugovich and Alonso used the specification that debuted in Austin while Stroll used the latest one, seen in Brazil.
So they still don't know the right path... amazing
