2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Luscion]

Enjoy the fake P2 Toto, no sportsmanship award for you. We won't forget the Vegas bs

Why do you continue to repeat this falsehood.

1. It’s not even true.
2. I can’t remember Ferrari helping them at anytime in AD21

if this is about Ferrari getting the 10 grid place penalty idk why people think Merc that anything to do it with,well i guess i do know, it was Crofty who said one team had rejected the chance for the stewards to explore this route, with strong hints made that Mercedes, so Ted went to Merc to ask and they said they didnt block Sainz and that it was to the discretion of the stewards, the stewards gave him the penalty stating that they would have not applied it if they could but the rules are the rules

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... ieve-block

this is what Zak Brown said about it and people immediately jumped to it being Merc

"'Yes, that is unfortunate. We know with Formula 1, there is a lot of self-interest from time to time. But I think you do need something like that. But yeah, it is a little bit unfortunate and a little bit unfair. I don't know who it was, but probably someone at odds with them," Brown concluded."

[mendis]

While George is being bashed, by saying Lewis outperformed him, a crucial fact gets neglected. A full blown upgrade package was built to make Lewis comfortable with the car, as Shovlin himself said. After that upgrade, George was on the backfoot as it didn't go in his direction of liking the car's feel. He took time to adapt again.

[j_ste]

While George is being bashed, by saying Lewis outperformed him, a crucial fact gets neglected. A full blown upgrade package was built to make Lewis comfortable with the car, as Shovlin himself said. After that upgrade, George was on the backfoot as it didn't go in his direction of liking the car's feel. He took time to adapt again.

An update package that largely didnt achieve what Lewis wanted it to. They were always compromised by the chassis they started the season with...the general issue of Lewis struugling with the rear of the car, has been constant from day one to day yesterday.

The one race all year that the car came alive as a genuine threat...they got DQ'd.

As George has said a few times. They havent been on the same pace all year...very up and down. Hopefully that changes

[AR3-GP]

While George is being bashed, by saying Lewis outperformed him, a crucial fact gets neglected. A full blown upgrade package was built to make Lewis comfortable with the car, as Shovlin himself said. After that upgrade, George was on the backfoot as it didn't go in his direction of liking the car's feel. He took time to adapt again.

An update package that largely didnt achieve what Lewis wanted it to. They were always compromised by the chassis they started the season with...the general issue of Lewis struugling with the rear of the car, has been constant from day one to day yesterday.

I remember at the time (Monaco), and you can flip back several pages in the thread to see it, but any time anyone dared to suggest that the upgrades were not amazing, there was a lot of push back by some here. Any post that wasn't positive was being reported to the moderators. Of course now many have given up on that and are calling it what it is. "Good riddance to the W14". It is at least refreshing to see some acknowledgment of the upgrades seemingly not giving all that was expected and the Mercedes upgrades were numerous. They were one of the teams with the most upgrades according to the tracking information that is shared here so it is perplexing.

Hamilton was having a nightmare with the car this weekend and at the end of the day, the car needs to work for him and Mercedes will keep throwing the kitchen sink at it until it does, regardless of how Russell is doing. Hamilton's 8th is what makes the numbers.

In the end, Hamilton and Toto were completely drained of the PR spins and couldn't be bothered to sugarcoat it anymore. Just like Hamilton said, this has to be the most amazing winter that Mercedes has ever had in their history if they hope to challenge for the title next season.

[Vanja #66]

Why do you continue to repeat this falsehood.

1. It’s not even true.

Repeating merc PR bs is not gonna make it true.

https://www.racefans.net/2023/11/18/sai ... row-start/

The stewards turned down Ferrari’s request, saying they do not have the power to derogate the regulations. However Sainz believes they could have done so had rival teams not applied pressure to ensure a penalty would be given.
***
"For sure there will be rival teams pushing for me to get a penalty which surprises me in a way. In another [way], I’ve been in the sport for too long to understand that this business… there’s too much money involved in the finishing position in the constructors’ or whatever for a team not to threaten to apply for a penalty for me."

The FIA Code gives stewards the authority, under 11.9.3.g to ‘decide to suspend any penalty in accordance with Article 12.2.3’ This was a clear cut case in point. Neither McLaren nor RB objected to Sainz getting a free swap since that was force majeure.

2. I can’t remember Ferrari helping them at anytime in AD21

[Mr5in1]

Hoping Mercedes can close the RB gap with the W15 next year. I think the Monaco upgrades were hampered by fundamental rear grip / knife edge operational window.

If the W15 can address this I suspect a larger development jump into 2024 and through the season.

I think it will come down to how much more RBR can squeeze out of their development path, and what else Ferrari and McLaren will bring

[Hammerfist]

Their only hope imo is if rbr somehow messes up the rb20. There are rumors rbr will go for a drastically new concept. So there’s a chance they miss out on that. So it could be 2015 again. But even if they do they’ll likely right the ship before year end. But it would be fun watching rbr chasing for once.

[AR3-GP]

Their only hope imo is if rbr somehow messes up the rb20. There are rumors rbr will go for a drastically new concept. So there’s a chance they miss out on that. So it could be 2015 again.

Merc won 16 of 19 races in 2015. Are you thinking of a different year? RB will be hoping that winning 16/19 is their "fall" but...

[r85]

Hoping Mercedes can close the RB gap with the W15 next year. I think the Monaco upgrades were hampered by fundamental rear grip / knife edge operational window.

If the W15 can address this I suspect a larger development jump into 2024 and through the season.

I think it will come down to how much more RBR can squeeze out of their development path, and what else Ferrari and McLaren will bring

The promising thing is that 90% of the upgrades were not even made to bring raw performance to the car, rather to steer development in a different direction. I'm confident that Ferrari and Mercedes understand the physics and know exactly what to fix.

[Luscion]

i think Merc has a lot going for them to get better next season, all their upgrades working as expected this season, more importantly the test upgrades for the W15. finally upgrading their old pit equipment for next year, new concept with a new chassis & new suspension, their engine performance no longer having to be compromised for the zero pods and Russell saying they're no longer scratching their heads as to why they're so far behind Red Bull and that they see so many flaws with the W14. All that being said though, gonna be a lot of effort they'll have to put in to match RB for 2024

[Mattchu]

Why do you continue to repeat this falsehood.

1. It’s not even true.

Repeating merc PR bs is not gonna make it true.

And you think if the tables were turned Ferrari wouldn`t have done the exact same thing! Sainz also said "teams" implying more than one, he also stated that F1 was a business. Max also said "every team thinks about themselves and they of course going to say no, he has to take the penalty.” It was plain bad luck, sometimes it happens, when it does, don`t expect favours from rival teams, they aren`t going to give an inch!

But whatever makes you feel better I suppose...

[AR3-GP]

it's finally over for this car and concept

Funny how so many people still classify this car as a massive s**tbox with a flawed concept. They have beaten 8 out of 9 other concepts/cars on the grid this year.

2nd in the constuctors, first non RB driver in the WDCC. Seems like a pretty decent car after all.

The problem is how they achieved that 2nd place, which really they are probably more unhappy with 2nd this year than they were with 3rd last year. They have fewer podiums, fewer poles, and fewer wins than last year. Their upgrades often did not lead to conclusive on track improvements vs what was simply a track that suited them. Where Ferrari actually managed to get on top of issues they started the season with, Hamilton was just as distrustful of the Merc at the end, as he was in the beginning.

I'd say the only thing notable this year was the PU improvement but, even this, they could hardly utilize because the car has a very inefficient cooling system.

[Juzh]

Their only hope imo is if rbr somehow messes up the rb20. There are rumors rbr will go for a drastically new concept. So there’s a chance they miss out on that. So it could be 2015 again.

Merc won 16 of 19 races in 2015. Are you thinking of a different year? RB will be hoping that winning 16/19 is their "fall" but...

He's thinking of 2015 RB11 which was by RB standards a sub-par car, but forgetting RB dont have a PU that's anywhere from 60-80 hp down on competition anymore, so a year like 2015 is extremely unlikely to occur in the near future.

[f1jcw]

Why do you continue to repeat this falsehood.

1. It’s not even true.

Repeating merc PR bs is not gonna make it true.

https://www.racefans.net/2023/11/18/sai ... row-start/

The stewards turned down Ferrari’s request, saying they do not have the power to derogate the regulations. However Sainz believes they could have done so had rival teams not applied pressure to ensure a penalty would be given.
***
"For sure there will be rival teams pushing for me to get a penalty which surprises me in a way. In another [way], I’ve been in the sport for too long to understand that this business… there’s too much money involved in the finishing position in the constructors’ or whatever for a team not to threaten to apply for a penalty for me."

The FIA Code gives stewards the authority, under 11.9.3.g to ‘decide to suspend any penalty in accordance with Article 12.2.3’ This was a clear cut case in point. Neither McLaren nor RB objected to Sainz getting a free swap since that was force majeure.

2. I can’t remember Ferrari helping them at anytime in AD21

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e5/67/60 ... b3d92d.gif

None of that says anything about Merc, let it go.

[CHT]

Was just watching the post-race interview last night. Comparing this year's Abu Dhabi post-race interview to 2022, the Merc drivers (especially LH) seem less optimistic as compared to last year when they won a race in Brazil. LH is also showing some signs of burnout after a very difficult and long season struggling with W14.

Since James Allison returned as Technical Director 7 months ago, the Merc has shown some signs of improvement but still struggling with the car setup and unpredictability. With Hamilton talking about Max's 17-second gap to 2nd, even when Max was barely pushing at the front that will put tremendous pressure on James Allsons his team over the winter to deliver a Brawn GP-like miracle with the W15

What is good for LH is shifting his focus on remaining in F1 for the Africa race which also means he may be hanging around for some more years to come as I don't think a race in Africa can be set up within a year or 2.

If 2024 doesn't turn out well, I think it will be closure for LH on the 8th WDC to start looking to become an ambassador for F1 instead.