Ferrari SF-24 speculation

[gordonthegun]

There is no reason not to expect big changes regarding chassis, lower SIS tube, suspension layout, etc. It will be a completely different-working car compared to launch SF-23. Then again, so is SF-23 Evo.

It should also be wrong to expect an RB19 clone (to an extent of McL M60 that exists now), since you can never figure out how another car works at 100% and it's better to find your own way.

What I expect we can see, from reports and my own observation:

- different FW approach than now, likely more towards F1-75 and a mix of RB19

- redesigned front suspension to a large extent, not sure pull or push-rod is crucial

- triangle airbox and tight engine cover will likely remain the feature

- lower placed low SIS tube, within the floor

- S-duct won't be carried over

- sidepods to evolve towards RB19 with wide inlet and high lower lip, rear end will likely be wider and more towards full downwash like RB

- top of the sidepods might go either way, I think RB solution works better in yaw while waterslides may provide some small gains on drag, so I think Ferrari won't put accent on waterslides

- evolved floor inlet and edge-wing of course, we can't say what the underside will look like since we don't know how the latest Japan itteration looks

- I don't expect bigger cannon outlet than now, while RB might reduce it further on RB20

- rear suspension redesign was announced, I think they will go with push rod rear now, it simply helps the downwash sidepods work better and leaves cleaner airflow path

- slight changes in diffuser geometry

- I think the Bahrain 23 wing (featured also in AD today) will remain the benchmark wing for testing and the number of wings used will drop to 5 at most

Compared to other top 5 cars now, Ferrari have the most room to improve regarding sidepods and rear end stability

Just to say that in my opinion the part that will contribute most to the success of the car is the underfloor.
You can do everything else perfectly, but without a very, very good underbody, Ferrari will achieve nothing, not even to come closer to RBR which, in my opinion, is still the best you can get.

For what we have seen this year, I think that Ferrari has one of the less effective underfloors.
Let's not forget that Leclerc has hidden a lot of flaws of the car.
"The car has to be judged looking at the less talented driver", someone said.

[scuderiabrandon]

There is no reason not to expect big changes regarding chassis, lower SIS tube, suspension layout, etc. It will be a completely different-working car compared to launch SF-23. Then again, so is SF-23 Evo.

It should also be wrong to expect an RB19 clone (to an extent of McL M60 that exists now), since you can never figure out how another car works at 100% and it's better to find your own way.

What I expect we can see, from reports and my own observation:

- different FW approach than now, likely more towards F1-75 and a mix of RB19

- redesigned front suspension to a large extent, not sure pull or push-rod is crucial

- triangle airbox and tight engine cover will likely remain the feature

- lower placed low SIS tube, within the floor

- S-duct won't be carried over

- sidepods to evolve towards RB19 with wide inlet and high lower lip, rear end will likely be wider and more towards full downwash like RB

- top of the sidepods might go either way, I think RB solution works better in yaw while waterslides may provide some small gains on drag, so I think Ferrari won't put accent on waterslides

- evolved floor inlet and edge-wing of course, we can't say what the underside will look like since we don't know how the latest Japan itteration looks

- I don't expect bigger cannon outlet than now, while RB might reduce it further on RB20

- rear suspension redesign was announced, I think they will go with push rod rear now, it simply helps the downwash sidepods work better and leaves cleaner airflow path

- slight changes in diffuser geometry

- I think the Bahrain 23 wing (featured also in AD today) will remain the benchmark wing for testing and the number of wings used will drop to 5 at most

Compared to other top 5 cars now, Ferrari have the most room to improve regarding sidepods and rear end stability

Just to say that in my opinion the part that will contribute most to the success of the car is the underfloor.
You can do everything else perfectly, but without a very, very good underbody, Ferrari will achieve nothing, not even to come closer to RBR which, in my opinion, is still the best you can get.

For what we have seen this year, I think that Ferrari has one of the less effective underfloors.
Let's not forget that Leclerc has hidden a lot of flaws of the car.
"The car has to be judged looking at the less talented driver", someone said.

"The car has to be judged looking at the less talented driver", someone said.

That is so wrong. You look at the driver who is able to extract more of the cars performance. Let's not forget these drivers are not magicians, they still abide to the laws of physics. The best drive as fast as the car allows them. Someone who is more consistently on the edge will by nature encounter more of its limitations, this being the better reference.

But let's not drift off topic here.

[gordonthegun]

Just to say that in my opinion the part that will contribute most to the success of the car is the underfloor.
You can do everything else perfectly, but without a very, very good underbody, Ferrari will achieve nothing, not even to come closer to RBR which, in my opinion, is still the best you can get.

For what we have seen this year, I think that Ferrari has one of the less effective underfloors.
Let's not forget that Leclerc has hidden a lot of flaws of the car.
"The car has to be judged looking at the less talented driver", someone said.

"The car has to be judged looking at the less talented driver", someone said.

That is so wrong. You look at the driver who is able to extract more of the cars performance. Let's not forget these drivers are not magicians, they still abide to the laws of physics. The best drive as fast as the car allows them. Someone who is more consistently on the edge will by nature encounter more of its limitations, this being the better reference.

But let's not drift off topic here.

Hi, Brandon.
OK, on my last sentence we could talk a lot but, as you said, it would be off topic.
I simply remember that a famous person in the Formula 1 world was used to say my quote and I think it's not completely wrong.

Anyway, what I said about the underfloor remains and I don't think Ferrari will make a lot of crucial changes, suspension wise, for example.
I Think that there will be changes to the arms geometry but I think that pull an push rods will stay where they have been this year.

I consider the changes to the sidepods made by Haas very interesting, because IMO they were agreed with Ferrari in order to collect data starting from a very similar car; data useful for both teams.
So, I think there will be a waterslide but not too steep because I think they will maintain the triangle airbox and a tight engine cover, so they will need more room in the sidepods for the mechanical parts.

I don't know why but I also think the side S-ducts will stay, maybe ending up blowing in the waterslide.

The floor-edge will obviously change as will the underfloor in initially unknown ways.

So, to summarize and to complete:

- Suspension type: the same, only changes to the arms geometry;
- Not too steep waterslide;
- Side S-ducts blowing in the slide;
- Triangle airbox and tight engine cover;
- Increased out-wash FW endplate;
- Pure down-wash sidepods, no more mixed down+in-wash (on this I'm not absolutely sure).

Good luck, Scuderia.

[Giogio]

What is SIS tube?

Side Impact Structure tube/cone

https://storage.googleapis.com/the-race ... 2-16-9.jpg

Just adding, the Ferrari SF23 has their lower SIS positioned higher than teams running Red Bull style sidepods(RB, and others, have their SIS molded into the floor) and it presents an obstruction to the undercut this style of sidepod typically has.

This is why we expect a change in this area.

thank you man

[scuderiabrandon]

Here are my predicitons

- push-push layout.

potentially more freedom with the boat tail/ diffuser area. Push rod rear allows more clean air over diffuser. This could potentially work much better alongside the downwashing sidepods. Keep push rod front for quick easy setup changes.

-Downwashing sidepods, inwash at the rear completely abandoned.

I bet they probably won't run waterslides


-SIS reposition

No need to elobrate

-No S-duct

No S-duct but I've speculated before that some other innovations could potentially pop up in the reg box that allows the duct to exsist.For example Merc ran a vane on the upper deck of the floor, I could see similar vane/s pop up here potentially.

-Underbite inlet (coanda inlet)

Similar to what we saw on the SF70H. Narrow inlet both in height and width sorta like the MCL60 solution but in addition it will feature the underbit.

-Increased centerline cooling

To increase the size of the foward undercut, some of the cooling will be required to move back over the engine. Which leads me into my next prediction

-Slightly larger engine cover than we see with the current iteration.

They'll have to enlarge it since cooling will move back to centerline to allow more downwash surface on the sidepod. Not to the extent that we see on some of the cars on the current grid. It will be noticably the more narrower design on the grid.

- FW design

They'll move back to the SF-23 launch FW design, with the major outwashing elements but keeping the outwashing endplate design they introduced in Austria. Slot gap seperators will remain.

-Narrower chassis nose.

To allow more clean mass flow to the floor inlet.


-New floor inlet

Convex design like we see on the RB19. The inlet acts a bit like a flow restrictor, further lowering the pressure underneath the floor. Fences will look similar to what we see on the SF-23.

-New Medium and High dwf RW

Monaco spec RW had noticably less spanwise loading this year compared to other teams. This was probably done because the narrow engine cover increased the efficiency of that design, this will be a little less the case next season in my opinion. Spa wing will replace the Baku wing. Wingtip cutout to feature on all assembliues besides the Monza spec. New endplates with flickup seen on the Aston Martin first.

-Floor edge skate will remain

-Edge skate will remain.

I've always wondered whether the skate could be used to shed sa vortex either directed into the diffuser or to manage the rear tyre squirt. It is known to be a 'bump stop' if you will, but I think it can be more than that.


I've probaly missed something.


Oh yes, Ferrari miraculously finds 50hp over the winter

[Vanja #66]

I don't know why but I also think the side S-ducts will stay, maybe ending up blowing in the waterslide.

I strongly believe the only reason they had a mini tub (aka gutter) where the sidepod meets the engine cover is because of the existing S-duct and the way the chassis was designed for it. It made the most sense to me as a flow conditioner for the very tight launch spec engine cover, to have the air blow from the duct over the louvres and especially in yaw/cornering.



Compare this to Barcelona-spec cover, which is nowhere near as tight, so I don't think it was particularly useful.



On the other hand, you have the s-duct inlet on the front which very likely generates drag. It may help with boundary layer suction, but obviously this is not a crucial design detail, otherwise all other cars would have fallen to sidepod s-duct

In any case, it will be very interesting if it stays, it will mean it has some other benefits that we have yet to find out about

[organic]

Advanced suspension (but still pullrod rear if I've understood correctly), large chassis changes, airbox remains triangular

[Vanja #66]

Again with the "things are now much better" tones... Oh well, optimism sells, especially in Italy...

[Giogio]

Advanced suspension (but still pullrod rear if I've understood correctly), large chassis changes, airbox remains triangular

I read the article, for the PU, Will they increase the reliability?

[scuderiabrandon]

Advanced suspension (but still pullrod rear if I've understood correctly), large chassis changes, airbox remains triangular

I read the article, for the PU, Will they increase the reliability?

We had no ICE or Turbo failures this season. In contrast to 2022 that is actually a massive step forward.

The reliability issues we faced were electronic, which is quite puzzling aswell atthis point in time. Although we know it was at least once down to human error. And once a sensor failure.

Sainz had a fuel leak du to the kerbs strikes in Qatar. Do we consider that a reliability issue?

Biggest issue seems to be the clutch with a terrible life span.

[Xyz22]

Cardile confirmed the following back in Zandvoort this year for the 2024 car:

- Brand new car compared to the SF 23 which was an evolution of the F1 75
- New chassis
- New rear end

[gordonthegun]

I think sidepods and engine cover of 2024 Ferrari will be very similar to what Haas made at the end of 2023 season (obviously more perfected).

Even the first small louver at the lateral connection of the halo might be the exit of the possibly retained S-duct.

I remember that I think the Haas upgrade was agreed upon with Ferrari and I also remember that in the last 2 races Haas ran both the old and new car.
What more is there to have a perfect comparison of what the changes have brought?
Obviously this all makes sense due to the similarities between Haas and Ferrari cars at the start of the season.

Triangle air box and tight engine cover are there, as well as the waterslide, but not too steep...

Anyway I hope that Ferrari surprises us with something that no one had thought of, as it always has done a lot of times, regardless of its effectiveness on track.
We will see.

[Giogio]

A possible modification of frontal chassis:
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10542560/

[Mattchu]

"The car has to be judged looking at the less talented driver", someone said.

Whoever said this clearly didn’t think for a second about the gap between Verstappen and Perez with the RB19.

By that logic, Perez finishing just ahead of Lewis in the standings would insinuate the car was just quick enough to beat Mercedes… let alone smash almost every record in the book over a season in the hands of Max.

I think the point being made is more along the lines of Perez being judged against Russell (nothing against George).

Do we think Ferrari will go with a new design gearbox casing, Iv`e read the area of the underfloor in this section is one of Red Bulls major advantages, with the suspension arrangement and casing allowing a greater area in this critical diffuser section to allow air to be extinguised quicker, thus allowing airflow through the underfloor to be more effective.
The floor seems a definite area Ferrari needs to work on, theirs always seemed a bit basic compared to some others...

Good luck to team red for next year.

[gordonthegun]

Do we think Ferrari will go with a new design gearbox casing, Iv`e read the area of the underfloor in this section is one of Red Bulls major advantages, with the suspension arrangement and casing allowing a greater area in this critical diffuser section to allow air to be extinguised quicker, thus allowing airflow through the underfloor to be more effective.
The floor seems a definite area Ferrari needs to work on, theirs always seemed a bit basic compared to some others...

Good luck to team red for next year.

I do hope so.
As I already said before, without an effective underfloor all the other changes have little impact.