Ferrari SF-24 speculation

[K1Plus]

PG/Formu1a suggest that the sidepods will be a less extreme solution. Something closer to the sf-23 and rb19 rather than the waterslides of McLaren/Aston Martin

There will be a significant undercut and the outermost floor fence will be significantly revised

This suggests they could continue with the hybrid inwash and downwash

[Venturiation]

[gordonthegun]

PG/Formu1a suggest that the sidepods will be a less extreme solution. Something closer to the sf-23 and rb19 rather than the waterslides of McLaren/Aston Martin

There will be a significant undercut and the outermost floor fence will be significantly revised

I wonder how this guy can know all these things.

The translated tweet says a lot more. Why should we believe him?

Translation (by Google and me, the Spanish GP is that of 2023):

"Ferrari 2024: the bellies will not have the Mclaren/Aston Martin tubs but will maintain a less extreme solution, already partially seen on the SF-23, and closer to what was seen on the Red Bull RB19. A good part of the bodywork will be an evolution, not a revolution, of the update seen at the 2022 Spanish GP. Thanks to the elimination of important chassis limitations, Ferrari will no longer use the front part of the belly to move the turbulent wake of the front tires but it will open up a significant undercut to bring better flow to the rear end. For this reason, the design of the outermost fence positioned at the entrance of the floor will be completely revised.".

[gordonthegun]

PG/Formu1a suggest that the sidepods will be a less extreme solution. Something closer to the sf-23 and rb19 rather than the waterslides of McLaren/Aston Martin

There will be a significant undercut and the outermost floor fence will be significantly revised

This suggests they could continue with the hybrid inwash and downwash

IMO, if this were true, with a much wider undercut, the end of the sidepods would have to be moved much further back and at this point the mixed solution of inwash/downwash would no longer be viable.

[alleyoop]

So, speculating on the 2024 Ferrari singleseater or project 676, I see:

1) Suspensions:
Push rod at front and pull at rear (like last year) but with a different geometry of the arms.
In particular: front with a higher value of positive caster (anti-dive) and rear with a higher value of negative caster (anti-squat).

Casters:

https://www.automobilismo.it/files/arti ... g-0003.jpg

Sorry, I struggle to understand how caster can influence antidive in a f1 suspension

[gordonthegun]

So, speculating on the 2024 Ferrari singleseater or project 676, I see:

1) Suspensions:
Push rod at front and pull at rear (like last year) but with a different geometry of the arms.
In particular: front with a higher value of positive caster (anti-dive) and rear with a higher value of negative caster (anti-squat).

Casters:

Sorry, I struggle to understand how caster can influence antidive in a f1 suspension

I'm not an expert but, intuitively, also looking at my drawing, I think that with a higher positive caster the lowering of the front is reduced because, when a downward force acts on the front, the horizontal movement of the suspension increases to the detriment of the vertical one. In this way the front lowers less.

Again intuitively, one might think that the wheels touch the ground with a slightly lower force, increasing understeer.
But I think that this can be corrected by obtaining, as a result of the less lowering, a greater aerodynamic load from the underbody.

[DoctorRadio]

PG/Formu1a suggest that the sidepods will be a less extreme solution. Something closer to the sf-23 and rb19 rather than the waterslides of McLaren/Aston Martin

There will be a significant undercut and the outermost floor fence will be significantly revised

I wonder how this guy can know all these things.

The translated tweet says a lot more. Why should we believe him?

Translation (by Google and me, the Spanish GP is that of 2023):

"Ferrari 2024: the bellies will not have the Mclaren/Aston Martin tubs but will maintain a less extreme solution, already partially seen on the SF-23, and closer to what was seen on the Red Bull RB19. A good part of the bodywork will be an evolution, not a revolution, of the update seen at the 2022 Spanish GP. Thanks to the elimination of important chassis limitations, Ferrari will no longer use the front part of the belly to move the turbulent wake of the front tires but it will open up a significant undercut to bring better flow to the rear end. For this reason, the design of the outermost fence positioned at the entrance of the floor will be completely revised.".

They have very good sources inside Ferrari, that is a fact that has been proven in the recent years.
They say Ferrari tried many versions of sidepods, including the waterslides, and decided for an evolution of those of the SF-23 (going RB19 route) with a huge undercut.

[gordonthegun]

PG/Formu1a suggest that the sidepods will be a less extreme solution. Something closer to the sf-23 and rb19 rather than the waterslides of McLaren/Aston Martin

There will be a significant undercut and the outermost floor fence will be significantly revised

I wonder how this guy can know all these things.

The translated tweet says a lot more. Why should we believe him?

Translation (by Google and me, the Spanish GP is that of 2023):

"Ferrari 2024: the bellies will not have the Mclaren/Aston Martin tubs but will maintain a less extreme solution, already partially seen on the SF-23, and closer to what was seen on the Red Bull RB19. A good part of the bodywork will be an evolution, not a revolution, of the update seen at the 2022 Spanish GP. Thanks to the elimination of important chassis limitations, Ferrari will no longer use the front part of the belly to move the turbulent wake of the front tires but it will open up a significant undercut to bring better flow to the rear end. For this reason, the design of the outermost fence positioned at the entrance of the floor will be completely revised.".

They have very good sources inside Ferrari, that is a fact that has been proven in the recent years.
They say Ferrari tried many versions of sidepods, including the waterslides, and decided for an evolution of those of the SF-23 (going RB19 route) with a huge undercut.

So Ferrari knows and allows this.
Why should they?

[gordonthegun]

"Evolution, not revolution".
Something already heard for the SF-23.

Let's hope this time it's a different story.

[Xyz22]

According to Nugnes the 676 will be 6kg lighter compared to the SF 23.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10566335/

[MaxLL]

According to Nugnes the 676 will be 6kg lighter compared to the SF 23.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10566335/

They spent a huge chunk of time on it. I'm just wondering if it will produce any results in a real race. It's clear that in simulation, reducing weight gives a boost to acceleration, but will it help Ferrari succeed?

[gordonthegun]

According to Nugnes the 676 will be 6kg lighter compared to the SF 23.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10566335/

Translation of the article (only technical part):

"The Ferrari 676 is expected to go under the minimum weight limit for the first time since the ground effect single-seater regulations were launched. It appears that the SF-23 started last season with around 6kg more than the 798kg set by the FIA technical regulations.

Let's be clear, Red Bull will also go under the limit and will be able to move some ballast that has never been seen on the RB19, but Ferrari slimming down will be a key to the leap in quality: as long as the first car is not assembled it will be difficult to establish the actual weight, but the refinement work carried out was painstaking and involved almost all aspects of the car.

The body has been lightened, as has the new, narrower gearbox to accommodate a larger diffuser. Interventions were also made on the hub holders and on the hybrid system with a battery closer to the minimum weight. We know that ten kilos in F1 are worth about three tenths on a circuit like Barcelona and, therefore, the weight alone should be worth more than a tenth and a half on the lap time.

The beneficial effect should not be limited to pure performance, but also to the protection of Pirelli tyres, another area of ​​development they have worked hard on in Maranello.".

[Vanja #66]

So from 10kg overweight at the start of 2022, they were still 6kg heavy a year later and are under the limit only now? Meanwhile RB lost 10-15kg in a single season? Yeah, not buying those 6kg overweight a year ago...

[scuderiabrandon]

So from 10kg overweight at the start of 2022, they were still 6kg heavy a year later and are under the limit only now? Meanwhile RB lost 10-15kg in a single season? Yeah, not buying those 6kg overweight a year ago...

They also had some revisions (Barcelona) that may hav added weight.

[ing.]

So, speculating on the 2024 Ferrari singleseater or project 676, I see:

1) Suspensions:
Push rod at front and pull at rear (like last year) but with a different geometry of the arms.
In particular: front with a higher value of positive caster (anti-dive) and rear with a higher value of negative caster (anti-squat).

Casters:

https://www.automobilismo.it/files/arti ... g-0003.jpg

Sorry, I struggle to understand how caster can influence antidive in a f1 suspension

You are right, caster—especially on an F1 with double wishbone suspension, and as different to a strut-type suspension, as shown—doesn’t influence anti-dive coefficient though anti-dive geometry does affect caster angle throughout the suspension travel.

Anti-dive, like anti-lift at the back—anti-squat is different as drive force is at wheel center height—is the way braking forces at the tire contact are reacted by the suspension geometry and how these loads are fed into the sprung mass (chassis) and the unsprung elements (springs), resulting in an upward force to the chassis and an unloading on the front springs, partially compensating the spring compression due to forward weight transfer under braking:



In effect, the lateral kinematics of a suspension with anti-dive geometry can be likened to a leading-arm suspension with the tire contact patch translating forward with upward deflection—and hence creating one of its drawbacks, poor compliance to bumps.

Finally, with all the talk of an anti-dive, ostensibly because of RB angled wishbones, you can see that RB--with the lower wishbone pivot axis also inclined--has a relatively low lateral instant center, and so a relatively low anti-dive coefficient… probably less than SF-23, ironically. So all this talk about SF-24 having more anti-dive just means wishbones pivot axes will be more inclined for aero reasons.