Ferrari SF-24 speculation

[Vanja #66]

Seems like everyone is converging on the RBR suspension design (pull -push) and Ferrari sticking with what they have albeit with different kinematics.
Just hope that this decision doesn’t come back to haunt them. I can’t for the life of me see why they would keep it purely for ease of set up if there are that many gains to be made to the flow conditioning of the RBR set up.

Budget cap is a very important factor in decision making, along with various time-line aspects. It's much better to use as much of the existing design as possible and add performance through aero because aero parts (when working as planned) always performance. Changing pull to push rod and vice versa may seem simple enough, but it requires changing both the front bulkhead of the chassis completely as well as gearbox casing and all the rear suspension internals.

[FDD]

Seems like everyone is converging on the RBR suspension design (pull -push) and Ferrari sticking with what they have albeit with different kinematics.
Just hope that this decision doesn’t come back to haunt them. I can’t for the life of me see why they would keep it purely for ease of set up if there are that many gains to be made to the flow conditioning of the RBR set up.

Push/Pull rod is only connected with the aero.
Pull is more complicated to work on because is on the lower part of the nose.
Edit: as you said "...many gains to be made to the flow conditioning of the RBR set up.", Ferrari has its flow conditioning concept and it does not mean that RB's one is better. Both have advantages and disadvantages.

[Vanja #66]

Gentle reminder that spitting on the team in some self-righteous tantrum is not related to 2024 car speculation and therefore does not belong in this thread. All the posts are reported. Let's keep it clean and sensible, thank you

[jambuka]

Looks like Alpine changed front suspension as well ?

[organic]

Looks like Alpine changed front suspension as well ?

They're still pushrod front. Pushrod rear as before

They have however got a vertical extension to the sidepod inlet, so perhaps first signs of another team adopting the S-duct

[ing.]

Seems like everyone is converging on the RBR suspension design (pull -push) and Ferrari sticking with what they have albeit with different kinematics.
Just hope that this decision doesn’t come back to haunt them. I can’t for the life of me see why they would keep it purely for ease of set up if there are that many gains to be made to the flow conditioning of the RBR set up.

I think the more correct assessment is that teams are converging to the deeply inclined upper and lower wishbones at the front—for flow conditioning as has been explained by various TDs— and not anti-dive as so many pundits keep writing.

Eyeball CFD would indicate pull-rod is more aligned with wishbones and causing less blockage at the upper wishbone pick-up location. Push-rod, on the other hand, should allow easier access for suspension adjustments. Alpine, for one, have stayed with push-rod at the front.

Push-rod at the rear would seem to open up flow down at the floor level, so maybe expect Ferrari to change to this set-up. Would also make nice symmetry, front to rear, with push- rods at both axles.

[michl420]

So the mechanical platforms are converging rapidly, which is natural since we are now in the third year of these regulations.

Teams that started on this configuration will continue to reap the benefits, I feel - especially when it comes to setup. The hope for everyone else is that the performance gain offsets the risk of tricky or narrow setup windows caused by the change.

If you refer to the pull rod front axle than you must actually say the aero platforms.

[gordonthegun]

Seems like everyone is converging on the RBR suspension design (pull -push) and Ferrari sticking with what they have albeit with different kinematics.
Just hope that this decision doesn’t come back to haunt them. I can’t for the life of me see why they would keep it purely for ease of set up if there are that many gains to be made to the flow conditioning of the RBR set up.

I think the more correct assessment is that teams are converging to the deeply inclined upper and lower wishbones at the front—for flow conditioning as has been explained by various TDs— and not anti-dive as so many pundits keep writing.

Eyeball CFD would indicate pull-rod is more aligned with wishbones and causing less blockage at the upper wishbone pick-up location. Push-rod, on the other hand, should allow easier access for suspension adjustments. Alpine, for one, have stayed with push-rod at the front.

Push-rod at the rear would seem to open up flow down at the floor level, so maybe expect Ferrari to change to this set-up. Would also make nice symmetry, front to rear, with push- rods at both axles.

According to various rumors, the type of suspension should not change, therefore push/pull, but we can always hope for a surprise.
Haas will use Ferrari suspensions, but in the renders they showed last year ones not to reveal the secret.

[voltmod]

First of all you are not good enough technically to out do what RB are doing and then you are telling me you cant copy them either due to various reasons. Great

If they were any good to find the solution on their own or say find a new mechanism that would outdo RB …I would be positive about them not coping RBR. But we all know they are sh*t. Another year of disappointment awaits.

Ferrari was using pull-rod front suspension before Red Bull even existed. They know what they are doing. The floor is the most important part of this formula. They will figure it out.

[gordonthegun]

The only sure thing is that the rims will be red with white and yellow circles:

[Vinlarr89]

This time next week we will know
Jokes aside. I’m intrigued as to what side pod solution Ferrari go with. Will they converge on letterbox inlets or go with something bespoke? Will the s duct stay or go. I guess if it stays it will mean water slides??

[MTL79]

I really hope Ferrari don't use yellow in their livery/team gear. This looks too much like the colour scheme for the golden arches....

[chrstphrln]

I really hope Ferrari don't use yellow in their livery/team gear. This looks too much like the colour scheme for the golden arches....

Yellow is the perfect color for the pit crew. Just like in Agip times.
Ferrari and Shell should think about that.
But for me yellow has no place on the car. The Monza Livery was already looking bad.

Back on topic: What irritates me a bit is the pullrod-pushrod discussion. M.W.n. Mercedes also stuck with pullrod, Sauber has now decided in favor of aerodynamics and against mechanics.
I don't think that, over the course of the season, the advantages of pullrod are so clear that sticking with the mechanically better solution is a really relevant disadvantage.

[f1316]

I think we forget that Ferrari ran pull rod at the front for aerodynamic benefit from 2012-14 while others did not; it’s always been a trade off of factors and never a silver bullet (or the inverse) in and of itself.

James Key said the same: it’s a small benefit in aero terms and not not the be-all-end-all. Gary Anderson then jumps in and essentially disagrees - talking about anti dive/squat - but who are you going to trust: the guy who just implemented it in a 2024 car or someone who hasn’t designed a car in 20 years?

[AR3-GP]

I don't think that, over the course of the season, the advantages of pullrod are so clear that sticking with the mechanically better solution is a really relevant disadvantage.

Why do you say that push rod is a "mechanically better solution"? In terms of kinematics, there is no difference between the two. It is only a rod which actuates the spring/damper due to the forces at the wheel. In terms of the mechanics, pull rods can be made lighter than push rods because rods are stronger under tension forces (pull rod), than they are under compression forces (push rod) for an identical cross-sectional area. Push rods have to be heavier.

There may be an "operational" advantage for the push rod (suspension setting changes can be done from above through an access hatch), but I do not see an advantage in mechanical or kinematic considerations.