2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Shal_Leg16]

How does everyone see 2024 play out between Carlos and Charles? I have felt at times over the last couple of years that Carlos tends to race more for Team Sainz than for Team Scuderia. I think this year will show a lot in regard to that dynamic. He now has no ties to Ferrari, he doesn't need to play nice, he doesn't need to win anyone over at the team... it could get interesting. Will they be allowed to race each other? How will team orders be issued?

Sainz has every right to do that considering they have dumped him and practically he will do it and be selfish considering he will be advertising for his new suiters. The point is can Ferrari handle him. They aslo can take the position that since sainz is gone all the focus/efforts go towards benefitting Charles. Like RB often abandon Perez for Max’s gain.

[bluechris]

How does everyone see 2024 play out between Carlos and Charles? I have felt at times over the last couple of years that Carlos tends to race more for Team Sainz than for Team Scuderia. I think this year will show a lot in regard to that dynamic. He now has no ties to Ferrari, he doesn't need to play nice, he doesn't need to win anyone over at the team... it could get interesting. Will they be allowed to race each other? How will team orders be issued?

Sainz has every right to do that considering they have dumped him and practically he will do it and be selfish considering he will be advertising for his new suiters. The point is can Ferrari handle him. They aslo can take the position that since sainz is gone all the focus/efforts go towards benefitting Charles. Like RB often abandon Perez for Max’s gain.

He always is like that, at least this year we will be happy if he will not moan at least that everything is others fault because there will be no point in this. I wish this will be the case this year.
Next year Ferrari will have the best driver that doesnt speak and moans ever

[Farnborough]

How does everyone see 2024 play out between Carlos and Charles? I have felt at times over the last couple of years that Carlos tends to race more for Team Sainz than for Team Scuderia. I think this year will show a lot in regard to that dynamic. He now has no ties to Ferrari, he doesn't need to play nice, he doesn't need to win anyone over at the team... it could get interesting. Will they be allowed to race each other? How will team orders be issued?

Sainz has every right to do that considering they have dumped him and practically he will do it and be selfish considering he will be advertising for his new suiters. The point is can Ferrari handle him. They aslo can take the position that since sainz is gone all the focus/efforts go towards benefitting Charles. Like RB often abandon Perez for Max’s gain.

He has "ties" to Ferrari in accordance with his contract, which exists to the end, failure of which to fulfill can result in dismissal, usually.

He doesn't have any "right" other than to be treated within the contract they both signed, Ferrari and Sainz management team.

Further, he risks both tainting his current legacy and not giving a good account of himself to future/ prospective teams that he'd like to employ him.
His contract has an end to which he agreed, with no ongoing commitment from both sides after that. Being out leveraged by Hamilton probably wasn't in his thoughts when it came to negotiation of further position of employment at Ferrari, he certainly wasn't in control of that.

The best he can do is to advertise his skills in the best possible way, making him the most attractive propositio to others in position to offer him a contract.

[Shal_Leg16]

How does everyone see 2024 play out between Carlos and Charles? I have felt at times over the last couple of years that Carlos tends to race more for Team Sainz than for Team Scuderia. I think this year will show a lot in regard to that dynamic. He now has no ties to Ferrari, he doesn't need to play nice, he doesn't need to win anyone over at the team... it could get interesting. Will they be allowed to race each other? How will team orders be issued?

Sainz has every right to do that considering they have dumped him and practically he will do it and be selfish considering he will be advertising for his new suiters. The point is can Ferrari handle him. They aslo can take the position that since sainz is gone all the focus/efforts go towards benefitting Charles. Like RB often abandon Perez for Max’s gain.

He has "ties" to Ferrari in accordance with his contract, which exists to the end, failure of which to fulfill can result in dismissal, usually.

He doesn't have any "right" other than to be treated within the contract they both signed, Ferrari and Sainz management team.

Further, he risks both tainting his current legacy and not giving a good account of himself to future/ prospective teams that he'd like to employ him.
His contract has an end to which he agreed, with no ongoing commitment from both sides after that. Being out leveraged by Hamilton probably wasn't in his thoughts when it came to negotiation of further position of employment at Ferrari, he certainly wasn't in control of that.

The best he can do is to advertise his skills in the best possible way, making him the most attractive propositio to others in position to offer him a contract.

Agreed that he is under contract and Obviously hes not gonna show middle finger to them literally but come on he will definitely put himself over team and others and be a bit more selfish. Thats human nature.

[Zynerji]

As far as I can see, for the past 2-3 days it's mostly been other team's fans that have been here commenting on Lewis in Ferrari. If other teams will worry about Ferrari this way in 2025, that's another added benefit of this move that I didn't anticipate.

Everyone's a Ferrari fan

How does everyone see 2024 play out between Carlos and Charles? I have felt at times over the last couple of years that Carlos tends to race more for Team Sainz than for Team Scuderia. I think this year will show a lot in regard to that dynamic. He now has no ties to Ferrari, he doesn't need to play nice, he doesn't need to win anyone over at the team... it could get interesting. Will they be allowed to race each other? How will team orders be issued?

I don't think Vasseur will make any public declaration, but as a smart manager he will want to give a few nudges at the right time to the driver that stays. Sainz must show other teams what he's worth and he will feel the pressure outside the track, which inevitably shows on track as well. He has shown he's more than prone to errors under pressure the last 2 years. I don't expect he'll show outright disobedience, but if he does he might be given la bota and will have trouble finding a new seat.

On the other hand, Leclerc will be under no pressure and he will want to show the team he's their best chance for a title even when Hamilton arrives. If 24 is even just slightly better than 23 car and he can set it up to his liking, he needs to make an extra effort this year, even more so than 22.

Think 2016 Nico Rosberg.

I'd love to see any argument how Rosberg and Sainz can be even remotely compared Not even the 2014-2016 Rosberg, just the results before 2014

I meant his ruthlessness and callousness along with 120% motivation and focus.

2024 Carlos will be breakout. Mark it.

[Vanja #66]

Yeah, didn't really expect I'd get that comparison... Sainz has always been more aggressive with Leclerc than any other driver, any more aggressive and he'll be slamming into Leclerc every race and that's a one-way ticket out that seat lot sooner than he'll want to

[scuderiabrandon]

Yeah, didn't really expect I'd get that comparison... Sainz has always been more aggressive with Leclerc than any other driver, any more aggressive and he'll be slamming into Leclerc every race and that's a one-way ticket out that seat lot sooner than he'll want to

And one way to not get a seat at another team

[mkay]

F1 | Mercedes background: Hamilton can't take engineers away
As we anticipated, the rumors that Lewis could bring some trusted technicians to Ferrari have little credibility because a "non-poaching clause" was included in the drafting of the contract with the seven-time world champion which prevents Hamilton from calling Peter Bonnington or Andrew Shovlin. The Star protected himself, a sign that the fears of an exit had already been contemplated at the renewal of the agreement which provided for a year plus option.

[...] in reality the operation will not be possible. According to what Motorsport.com has learned, in the voluminous contract that Lewis signed with Mercedes last August there is a clause that protects the team on this front. In England it is called the "non-poaching clause", a note that is attached to managers' contracts to prevent an action aimed at inviting former colleagues to follow the same path in the event of termination of the relationship with the company, proposing employment in another workplace.

Mercedes has used the same approach with Hamilton, who is expressly prohibited by contact from even proposing to his current collaborators to follow him towards Maranello starting from 2025. It is a measure that several Formula 1 teams have introduced in the contracts of the top -manager and in some cases (like this one) also of some pilots, in order to avoid hemorrhaging of personnel. Poaching (literally 'poaching') has been a topic that has long been present in the contracts of technical directors and team principals, as well as in those of top drivers, figures who can have an important influence on the team.

A similar case occurred at the end of the 2014 season. Fernando Alonso, after his divorce from Maranello and his subsequent move to McLaren, managed to be followed by the then track engineer Andrea Stella. The same operation was not possible for Sebastian Vettel (who replaced Alonso at Ferrari) because the contract signed with Red Bull included a 'poaching' clause which prevented Guillaume "Rocky" Rocquelin (Seb's engineer in the four world championship seasons) from following Vettel in his new adventure in 'red'. Obviously a transfer is always possible with the consent of all parties, but it doesn't seem like the current scenario for Mercedes, taken by surprise and certainly not enthusiastic about Hamilton's departure.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-re ... /10573618/

Interesting. So basically a guy like Bono can't leave to Ferrari now without the consent of Merc, which they are unlikely to give.

That's not how a non-solicit works.

A non-solicit just says that an departing employee cannot elicit a current employee to follow him/her to his next employer. Basically, Lewis can't ask Shov or Bono to follow him to Ferrari.

However, it doesn't preclude Ferrari from offering both of them a job.

Also, as someone said above, there are definitely questions are the enforceability of non-solicit, and even non-compete (gardening leave) in some jurisdictions.

[mstar]

The BBC are reporting that Newey's number 2 Pierre Wache, is in talks with Ferrari for 2025 (he probably has 1 year gardening leave??). I for some reason don't think its true as newey maybe retire in the future and he be the next in line. However i guess money and working for ferrari....

[mstar]

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-re ... /10573618/

Interesting. So basically a guy like Bono can't leave to Ferrari now without the consent of Merc, which they are unlikely to give.

That's not how a non-solicit works.

A non-solicit just says that an departing employee cannot elicit a current employee to follow him/her to his next employer. Basically, Lewis can't ask Shov or Bono to follow him to Ferrari.

However, it doesn't preclude Ferrari from offering both of them a job.

Also, as someone said above, there are definitely questions are the enforceability of non-solicit, and even non-compete (gardening leave) in some jurisdictions.

This clause is in most senior F1 contracts. As you said nothing stopping Fred DIRECTLY approaching Bono etc or Bono reaching out to Ferrari directly. The clause is really silly and it doesn't really work but F1 teams put it in contracts.

[dialtone]

Interesting. So basically a guy like Bono can't leave to Ferrari now without the consent of Merc, which they are unlikely to give.

That's not how a non-solicit works.

A non-solicit just says that an departing employee cannot elicit a current employee to follow him/her to his next employer. Basically, Lewis can't ask Shov or Bono to follow him to Ferrari.

However, it doesn't preclude Ferrari from offering both of them a job.

Also, as someone said above, there are definitely questions are the enforceability of non-solicit, and even non-compete (gardening leave) in some jurisdictions.

This clause is in most senior F1 contracts. As you said nothing stopping Fred DIRECTLY approaching Bono etc or Bono reaching out to Ferrari directly. The clause is really silly and it doesn't really work but F1 teams put it in contracts.

That clause is in most senior position contracts in any job.

Not only Ferrari can do it, but if the employee wants to leave and follow Lewis that’s also perfectly fine.

Lewis simply can’t be the one reaching out to start the deal.

[Cs98]

That's not how a non-solicit works.

A non-solicit just says that an departing employee cannot elicit a current employee to follow him/her to his next employer. Basically, Lewis can't ask Shov or Bono to follow him to Ferrari.

However, it doesn't preclude Ferrari from offering both of them a job.

Also, as someone said above, there are definitely questions are the enforceability of non-solicit, and even non-compete (gardening leave) in some jurisdictions.

Fair enough. It doesn't seem very effective and quite easy to work around then. Lewis can just have Ferrari make the offer to Bono, for example.

[FDD]

Christian Horner is in a threat to be fired from Red Bull.
BUT he, most probably has an clause in the contract (as Adrian Newey has) according to which if one of the two (Christian/Adrian) is fired, the other one can be considered as free of any obligations to Red Bull Formula 1 team, to repeat this is a speculation.
The other thing is that Adrian has a close relations with Lewis Hamilton, who shall drive for Cavallino Rampante starting from 2025...
Spaghetti a la Maranello...
Sit and wait...

[KimiRai]

That's not how a non-solicit works.

A non-solicit just says that an departing employee cannot elicit a current employee to follow him/her to his next employer. Basically, Lewis can't ask Shov or Bono to follow him to Ferrari.

However, it doesn't preclude Ferrari from offering both of them a job.

Also, as someone said above, there are definitely questions are the enforceability of non-solicit, and even non-compete (gardening leave) in some jurisdictions.

Interesting, thanks

[JPower]

It will make no difference to Carlos if Charles beat him or not because he will be leaving Ferrari regardless of the result. While Charles will have to ensure he needs to live up to expectations to be the chosen one to remain in Ferrari. To finish behind Carlos in 2024 will not be good for CL going into 2025 against a 7xWDC. Ferrari has high expectations of drivers and everyone is replaceable. Ferrari drivers cannot crack under pressure and it's not very often they get tested these days.

George is in a slightly different position because LH wanted out, to join a rival team. So the working relationship between Merc and LH will certainly change in favor of GR. Finishing behind LH will be fine because LH is 7WDC and Merc is not going to replace GR.

I am not here to guess who will be a quicker or better driver, just the psychological dynamic between teammates due to their own unique circumstances.

Agreed. I don’t think any opinions on the grid on these drivers will change but in terms of pressure, I’d probably put more on Leclerc as he has to beat Sainz and maintain a certain level before Lewis enters.

Regardless, across the season, I don’t see any change in how they operate.

Unlike certain parts of the Ferrari fan base, they have played well their entire tenure together. People acting like Sainz is some unprofessional dolt are exposing their bias. Suggesting he will perform some type of sabotage is evidence of DTS brain rot. He performed well leaving McLaren in 2020 and will likely do the same this season.