It's not the same concept -you are yourself hinting at different cooling strategies- nor the same nose.Apexseal157 wrote: ↑13 Feb 2024, 18:33seems conventional, I expected more centerline cooling like the haas so they could really close up the sidepod inlet, instead they've gone for the same triangle airbox inlet and bigger sidepod inlet. what we have here is a
red-bull rb-sf19-24, same nose, same concept but easily 6+ months behind. You'd imagine the real redbull will be a large step beyond this.
Right, but what if it has an RB20 level floor under there that actually works…Apexseal157 wrote: ↑13 Feb 2024, 18:33seems conventional, I expected more centerline cooling like the haas so they could really close up the sidepod inlet, instead they've gone for the same triangle airbox inlet and bigger sidepod inlet. what we have here is a
red-bull rb-sf19-24, same nose, same concept but easily 6+ months behind. You'd imagine the real redbull will be a large step beyond this.
Seems like they are confident with the suspension choice. I just hope they don't face any mechanical failures from too many "innovative" changes.The Ferrari SF-24 was unveiled through a short official video released by the Scuderia. No special event, in continuity with the low-profile approach desired by Frederic Vasseur. Expectations and ambitions will only be indicated by the track once the race car has been transported to Bahrain and competes with direct competitors in the three days of testing, but especially during the first weekend of the new Formula 1 season. Meanwhile, for the first indications, Carlos Sainz and Charles Leclerc covered their first 15 km at Fiorano today and are ready to return to the track tomorrow for the 200 km filming day that will provide more information to the drivers and engineers of the Maranello team.
Ferrari SF-24: the front suspension is revised in kinematics but there has been crossover with the 2023 specification
The Ferrari shown a few hours ago is the first car of the Italian team that will fully exploit the downwash concept, after using a mixed concept from the Spanish GP of the last season. This is also why there are no major innovations externally, with the use of solutions already seen on many cars from the past season.
However, what speaks the most is the choices made by the technical staff led by Enrico Cardile regarding the mechanical part of the SF-24. The front suspension remains push-rod even though "there has been some crossover with the SF-23 specification," said the technical director of the Italian team. The kinematics have been revised, with work done in that area consisting of providing a greater anti-dive effect, while keeping most of the internal elements. This is a choice that follows the Red Bull ideology, albeit with a different scheme, seeking greater overall stability, especially of the aerodynamic platform.
Ferrari SF-24: the pull-rod rear suspension is innovative according to Cardile
Ferrari, along with Haas, which buys the entire mechanics from the Italian team, will be the only team in the 2024 F1 season to use pull-rod suspension at the rear. "During the development, not only of this car but also of the previous one, we studied the different layout of suspensions for our goals, so also the push-rod, and we found a good compromise with the current layout," said Enrico Cardile in a press conference on the sidelines of the SF-24 presentation. From a mechanical point of view, it's always a matter of compromises, as already stated in the analysis of Mercedes' new rear suspension, and Cardile also wanted to underline this. "I'm talking about the compromise between aerodynamic performance, weight, suspension compliance, and so on. During this season, we don't intend to change the suspension layout. Then we'll see during development, but so far, we are satisfied with this configuration."
On this generation of cars, according to the opinion of many professionals (technicians), the push-rod configuration at the rear presents a clear aerodynamic advantage over the pull-rod configuration since the internal elements are positioned high, allowing to reduce the section of the front part of the transmission, freeing up space in the floor. However, Ferrari has considered that the push-rod suspension did not give such a clear advantage to justify the change. "We preferred to deepen and optimize a solution on which we already have a lot of knowledge (pull-rod)," said the Italian technical director. Formu1a.uno can reveal that with the rear suspension of the SF-23, a significant effort was already made to miniaturize the internal components to minimize the bulk in a very delicate position of the race car. With the 2024 specification, another step forward has been taken with an even more in-depth redesign.
"The rear suspension of the SF-24 has an innovative concept for us, different from that of recent years. The elements inside the gearbox have been allocated differently. It's a very different way of managing these components," explained Technical Director Enrico Cardile. The attachment of the tie rod has changed massively, moved much further back than the suspension specification used on the SF-23. From the point of view of the triangles, as at the front, the direction has been to increase anti-lift and anti-squat, with the lowering of the front arm of the upper triangle, a advantageous choice to keep the aerodynamic platform as stable as possible under braking and acceleration.
would be a huge surprise, the rb19's floor was a long way ahead of the rest of the field, no doubt teams looked at the floor last season (monaco) and started trying to implement some of the ideas they saw, the concern is that the RB20 will have developed that concept further. At best the sf24 has a floor as developed as the rb19, the rb20 will be a step again you'd assume.deadhead wrote: ↑13 Feb 2024, 19:01Right, but what if it has an RB20 level floor under there that actually works…Apexseal157 wrote: ↑13 Feb 2024, 18:33seems conventional, I expected more centerline cooling like the haas so they could really close up the sidepod inlet, instead they've gone for the same triangle airbox inlet and bigger sidepod inlet. what we have here is a
red-bull rb-sf19-24, same nose, same concept but easily 6+ months behind. You'd imagine the real redbull will be a large step beyond this.
The early 2022 ferrari had a very good floor for the rules as they were, though it worked differently than RB's, and though rule tweaks neutered the design. Based on that, there is no actual reason Ferrari cannot produce a slightly different floor than RB, with more understanding on what works for Red Bull, and potentially do a better job. Yes, in 2023 there was a big difference during the races, but that does not prove that no one can get close.Apexseal157 wrote: ↑13 Feb 2024, 19:18would be a huge surprise, the rb19's floor was a long way ahead of the rest of the field, no doubt teams looked at the floor last season (monaco) and started trying to implement some of the ideas they saw, the concern is that the RB20 will have developed that concept further. At best the sf24 has a floor as developed as the rb19, the rb20 will be a step again you'd assume.deadhead wrote: ↑13 Feb 2024, 19:01Right, but what if it has an RB20 level floor under there that actually works…Apexseal157 wrote: ↑13 Feb 2024, 18:33seems conventional, I expected more centerline cooling like the haas so they could really close up the sidepod inlet, instead they've gone for the same triangle airbox inlet and bigger sidepod inlet. what we have here is a
red-bull rb-sf19-24, same nose, same concept but easily 6+ months behind. You'd imagine the real redbull will be a large step beyond this.
Is it just me or the inlet shape is convex? In the other rendering pictures there seemed to be a little convex area on the slide, but it seems the whole area is in fact convex right from the inlet.
Ferrari SF-24: pull-rod rear suspension is innovative according to Cardile
Ferrari, along with Haas, which buys the mechanics entirely from the Italian team, will be the only team in the 2024 F1 season to use pull-rod suspension at the rear. "During the development, not only of this car, we studied the different layout of the suspension for our goals, so also the push-rod, and we found a good compromise with the current layout," Enrico Cardile made known at a press conference on the sidelines of the SF-24 presentation. Mechanically, it is always a matter of trade-offs, as already stated in the analysis of Mercedes' new rear suspension, and Cardile also wanted to emphasize this. "I'm talking about the compromise between aerodynamic performance, weight, suspension compliance, and so on. During this season we have no plans to change the suspension scheme. Then we will see during development but so far we are satisfied with this configuration."
"The rear suspension of the SF-24 has an innovative concept for us, different from last years'. The elements inside the gearbox have been allocated differently. It's a very different way of handling these components," explained the direct engineer, Enrico Cardile. What has changed massively is precisely the attachment of the tie rod, which has been moved far back compared to the suspension specification used on the SF-23. From the point of view of the triangles, as at the front, we went in the direction of increasing anti-lift and anti-squat, with the lowering of the front arm of the upper triangle, an advantageous choice to keep the aerodynamic platform as stable as possible under braking and acceleration.
According to me we can see that that part is convex on the official video on 1.00 and 1,12 min.dialtone wrote: ↑13 Feb 2024, 19:26Is it just me or the inlet shape is convex? In the other rendering pictures there seemed to be a little convex area on the slide, but it seems the whole area is in fact convex right from the inlet.
In this picture it certainly looks even more elaborate as far as shapes go right under the shell symbol.
EDIT: Also from this picture the rear brake fairings look like they may be taking the shape of a bigger diffuser around the actual diffuser?
https://i.imgur.com/U99EJDb.png
