Red Bull RB20

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Red Bull RB20

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mauricienne wrote:What's the target of big tunnels on the side on the engine cover?
The sidepods are missing stuff on the front side, compared to RB19, probably had to move some more cooling on the centerline and that’s how they packaged it

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vorticism
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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vorticism wrote:
16 Feb 2024, 20:53
The pronounced forward sweep of the front upper forward suspension arms...

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This detail is omitted in the web model.
kfrantzios wrote:
15 Feb 2024, 22:16
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Last edited by vorticism on 16 Feb 2024, 21:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Henk_v
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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As I posted, I do not yet buy the vertical inlet theory.

If so, how would it be legal?

It is either fully inside the legality box that allowed the ferrari S-duct, or there is something I am missing, but looking at the '22 kyle video of the Mercedes and how he explains they got the vertical inlets legal, none seem to apply here...

FNTC
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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mauricienne wrote:
16 Feb 2024, 20:57
What's the target of big tunnels on the side on the engine cover?
I've seen some experts say that this is to contain cockpit losses inside that gully to prevent it "spilling over" to the sidepods.

AR3-GP
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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FNTC wrote:
16 Feb 2024, 23:00
mauricienne wrote:
16 Feb 2024, 20:57
What's the target of big tunnels on the side on the engine cover?
I've seen some experts say that this is to contain cockpit losses inside that gully to prevent it "spilling over" to the sidepods.
I read similar. I think the reason that Mercedes got rid of it wasn't because "it didn't work", but because they really wanted to change 100% of their car, to be certain none of their problems were due to holdovers from the old car.
A lion must kill its prey.

CHT
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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Is RBR trying to intergrate W14 concepts to RB19.

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ing.
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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vorticism wrote:
16 Feb 2024, 20:53
The pronounced forward sweep of the front upper forward suspension arms is visible as I alluded to a few days ago. I've stitched together a couple of frames from one of the videos posted and highlight the sweep angle in green relative to the y axis in yellow.

https://i.postimg.cc/XJ4WQcCz/IMG-6632.jpg
viewtopic.php?p=1184785#p1184785

Front suspension: The upper forward arm attachment point appears to be kicked back further. It should look relatively severe in the coming photos. It’s now so far back that it’s in approximately the same area where pushrods intersect the chassis on pushrod equipped cars; if so, this detail would not be easily duplicated on a front pushrod equipped car. Their front suspension design has been on a different planet for three seasons now and no fans or press have been able to say definitively if it’s an aero concept or a kinematics concept.

https://i.postimg.cc/Vk5PBDwz/rb2o-front-susp.jpg
I expect this was done to locate the upper wishbone forward pick-up that little bit higher, consistent with the raised (now overbite) leading edge of the sidepod.

From a kinematics point-of-view, inclined wishbones may also affect caster and camber changes in, for example, roll with steered wheel when cornering but with the the way this generation of cars are stiffly sprung this is probably not a consideration.

AR3-GP
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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The way RB have been hiking up those suspension arms...You would almost think they want to put a keel on the top of the car to mount the arms.
A lion must kill its prey.

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ing.
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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AR3-GP wrote:
17 Feb 2024, 04:04
The way RB have been hiking up those suspension arms...You would almost think they want to put a keel on the top of the car to mount the arms.
LOL, Newey’s probably sketching something like that right now for next year: upper wishbone forward arms joining at the centerline keel (and proud of the chassis top) creating a full-span wing!

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RedNEO
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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mauricienne wrote:
16 Feb 2024, 20:57
What's the target of big tunnels on the side on the engine cover?
Ive heard it’s for the secret jet engine exhaust ports.

In all seriousness I saw that ex merc engineer speculating it’s to clean up dirty flow from the halo headrest area possibly

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organic
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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Almost certain there's a panel/cover on top sidepod surface which is hiding a deeper waterslide.

The way the cover interfaces with engine cover is not correct for RB bodywork - just look higher up the sidepod. It's essentially taped into place, not dissimilar to box cover they had on floor edge

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Silverstone test images from angles at which this panel should be visible (if it was there when they ran on track)

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Look at where the Red Bull sticker is placed on launch vs Silverstone car. Similar area yet in Silverstone test pic the panel should be intersecting the logo or at least getting near the 'd' of 'Red' but it's nowhere to be seen

Additional perhaps controversial theory

Unlikely but possible outlet spotted? It's in the volume it could be housed within and the bulge that could be an outlet is visible on multiple photos of the car at Silverstone but there's no feature at the launch that would show such a bulge.

Image

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Mmgnt
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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organic wrote:
17 Feb 2024, 08:49
Almost certain there's a panel/cover on top sidepod surface which is hiding a deeper waterslide.

My understanding is that a primary function of the waterslides is to contain upper spillage so it doesn't spill "over the edge" of the sidepod. If the RB20s spillage is directed down into the undercut region I'm not sure they're needed.

As I said earlier (apparently I haven't posted enough to be unmoderated yet - we'll see with this one): unless they are faking the very visible new top "shelf", the most significant change here is the spillage into the undercuts vs up top. Horizontal vs vertical inlets is a minor detail by comparison, IMO.
Last edited by Mmgnt on 17 Feb 2024, 09:13, edited 2 times in total.

Mmgnt
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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Henk_v wrote:
16 Feb 2024, 22:42
As I posted, I do not yet buy the vertical inlet theory.

If so, how would it be legal?

It is either fully inside the legality box that allowed the ferrari S-duct, or there is something I am missing, but looking at the '22 kyle video of the Mercedes and how he explains they got the vertical inlets legal, none seem to apply here...
If I recall correctly, what made people question the legality of the w13 inlets was the separate wing above it. Since the inlet itself did not have a 2nd "curve" along the Y plane (max 2 are allowed per the rules), their 2nd "curve" could be used for that wing instead.

Ie - the orientation of the shape of the inlet is irrelevant. If the top of RB20s inlet is that upper "wing" or shelf or whatever, then it meets the requirements no differently than any typical inlet we've seen would. IMO

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vorticism
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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What’s that, anon? You didn’t know it’s it’s been legal to use two engine air intakes since 2014? I’m reasonably confident that Red Bull might been the first team to finally try it. I’ve illustrated the concept below.


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The rule for engine air intakes does not specify any y-axis locations, only z and x. The same small free loophole zone that Ferrari exploited for their S-duct I propose is being used here as well, except as an engine intake rather than for entry into a duct. The vertical slots visible on the RB20 in photographs are located within the permitted zones of engine intake air; yes, even in that unusual location.

“But the air there! It is dirty!” you’ll say; but anon, do you not remember that the halo has been compromising clean flow the roll hoop inlets for many seasons now? The airflow may not be so disadvantageously noisy nor turbulent compared to halo wake. Combine that with the new shark-mouth/brimmed sidepod inlet present on RB20 which helps constrain and compile airflow through that region, while perhaps helpfully increasing pressure and stagnation in a way that could not be achieved ahead of a current F1 roll hoop inlet.

Also consider that such a thin cheese grater type of inlet will do well at eating the oncoming boundary layer present in this aerodynamically important area. The compressor will supply the two intake plenums with a constant source of manifold vacuum, and the combined effect of boundary layer thinning and increase in total mass flow could help the various floor edge functions.

With no engine air intake in the roll hoop, the roll hoop becomes exclusively used to feed centerline radiators. This could allow the sidepod inlets to be reduced in size. The Merc type pretzel shape roll hoop inlet I do not consider to be aerodynamically ideal due the that shapes involved; so why would RB bother with it? This was the detail that seemed most odd to me on RB20. If there is a greater mass of radiator core placed higher in the car, then they would need to take weight out of the roll hoop, and an A frame roll structure as in the center of the pretzel, provides that.

The regulation which permits engine air intakes across a rather large span:
5.15.1 With the exception of incidental leakage through joints or cooling ducts in the inlet system (either into or out of the system), all air entering the engine must enter the bodywork through a maximum of two inlets which are located on a single X plane between XC= -850 and XR= -500 and above Z=200.
Furthermore, any such inlets must be visible in their entirety when viewed from the front of the car without the driver seated in the car and with the secondary roll structure and any parts attached to it removed (see Article 12.4.2).
The original intent for this reg must have been to enable use of the main sidepod inlets as the air intake(s) in addition to feeding the radiators. I'm 90% sure I have the dimensions correctly interpreted, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong. I wouldn't normally go out so far on such a limb but what struck me was the coincidence of the rules seeming to permit an intake in the exact area. It was, for me, too much of a coincidence. Why not employ this on RB18 or RB19? Perhaps there was too much of a challenge packaging it, as those cars were said to have been over regulation weight.



Last edited by vorticism on 17 Feb 2024, 10:42, edited 7 times in total.
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djos
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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Interesting theory, my only critique is that the weight of the added plumbing would be why no one has ever done this.

I would suggest those slots are cooling for the battery and electronics which are much closer to that area that the ICE is.
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