Red Bull RB20

[AR3-GP]

My contact at MK has informed me that RB will indeed incorporate micro-sidepods, albeit not where you think.
First they replaced their twin air-to-air intercoolers with a water one, like most cars today, to empty up the sidepods. Therefore, the remaining sidepod cooling will be pushed into the monocoque recesses that were made for the intercoolers (as illustrated in my old drawing). Furthermore, they will continue to rely on a significant centerline cooling system. And to address the drag issue associated with the rear wheels, RB will put... delta-shaped & empty sidepods in front of them, as seen in the Brabham Bt55 or the Tyrrell 012 and other cars of that era.
https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-yzgoj/i ... 71.jpg?c=2

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGb5EgTWAAA ... name=large

I couldn't tell if this post was serious or not, but if so...intriguing.

Considering the poster hasn't elaborated and was the same guy who posted this (https://i.imgur.com/XN0DthO.png) in the RB20 speculation thread, I have a feeling we have a comedian on our hands. Could be wrong ofc.

The OP has made several technical contributions to the forum, so my position is still to assume it is credible until OP says otherwise.

[Vanja #66]

If I was Red Bull, this would be my first update. Shrink the rear of the sidepod (quite bulky now, conservative in terms of internal cooling ducts and adequate for these 3 hotter races) and bring down the upper inlet lip. A lot of lift reduction, and drag reduction by also generating thrust on the upper inlet lip. Overall decent efficiency increase. The colours are of course rough estimations of pressure plots
higher, ambient, low, lower



Considering the surface of these sidepods, this update would be scary. Those who are regularly visiting this forum and have their hand on other cars, don't say you were surprised in a month and a half

[SirBastianVettel]

If I was Red Bull, this would be my first update.

...

Would the air stay attached when it has to go around a curve like that on top of the sidepod inlet (light blue area)? Seems to me that it would be quite a challenge, but then again I don't know much about aerodynamics...

[FNTC]

If I was Red Bull, this would be my first update.

...

Would the air stay attached when it has to go around a curve like that on top of the sidepod inlet (light blue area)? Seems to me that it would be quite a challenge, but then again I don't know much about aerodynamics...

Also, would the air inlet get enough air when there is no direct path to the inlet, but its covered and relying on pressurization (if we rule out the vertical inlets going to the radiators)?

[.poz]

everyone is looking at sidepods but...

the engines are frozen so the amount of heat to dissipate is the same
airscope is slightly larger so the sidepods inlets can be slightly smaller
consequences:
the amount of air going under the sidepods is almost the same, i can't see an huge boost of performance coming from
here

the most impressive part of the car imho is the channel between the rear wheel ad the engine cover feeding the diffuser, they cleared the area a lot

[Vanja #66]

Would the air stay attached when it has to go around a curve like that on top of the sidepod inlet (light blue area)? Seems to me that it would be quite a challenge, but then again I don't know much about aerodynamics...

No reason to expect issues there, free stream angle (0 deg, of course) irons that out

Also, would the air inlet get enough air when there is no direct path to the inlet, but its covered and relying on pressurization (if we rule out the vertical inlets going to the radiators)?

Yes, because front wing is already generating upwash, so the air coming to the sidepod is already going up. There is also a bit of influence of the floor leading edge also giving the air a nudge up. This was early RB19 in Bahrain pre-season test:

[Sieper]

everyone is looking at sidepods but...

the engines are frozen so the amount of heat to dissipate is the same
airscope is slightly larger so the sidepods inlets can be slightly smaller
consequences:
the amount of air going under the sidepods is almost the same, i can't see an huge boost of performance coming from
here

the most impressive part of the car imho is the channel between the rear wheel ad the engine cover feeding the diffuser, they cleared the area a lot

I agree, but, there always is one but, redbull apparently went water to air intercooler this year, air to air last year. So there is some packaging gain for them there. Others have been doing that longer.

[.poz]

I agree, but, there always is one but, redbull apparently went water to air intercooler this year, air to air last year. So there is some packaging gain for them there. Others have been doing that longer.

that can be a huge gain in packaging but the heat to dissipate remain the same

[deadhead]

I agree, but, there always is one but, redbull apparently went water to air intercooler this year, air to air last year. So there is some packaging gain for them there. Others have been doing that longer.

that can be a huge gain in packaging but the heat to dissipate remain the same

But wouldn't that gain in packaging open the possibility of a smaller side pod overall?

[f1316]

If I was Red Bull, this would be my first update. Shrink the rear of the sidepod (quite bulky now, conservative in terms of internal cooling ducts and adequate for these 3 hotter races) and bring down the upper inlet lip. A lot of lift reduction, and drag reduction by also generating thrust on the upper inlet lip. Overall decent efficiency increase. The colours are of course rough estimations of pressure plots
higher, ambient, low, lower

https://i.ibb.co/QdpTkTn/RB-20-evolution.jpg

Considering the surface of these sidepods, this update would be scary. Those who are regularly visiting this forum and have their hand on other cars, don't say you were surprised in a month and a half

Well apparently they will shrink the sidepod - or rather remove it almost entirely! https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red- ... /10576560/

I feel like, if anyone other than Red Bull were trying this, we would be highly sceptical of its success. Presuming it is actually Mercedes style (and perhaps that presumption is the problem) then it does seem quite risky to pursue a direction that your highly-resourced rival could not get working over the course of two seasons.

Now, of course, the devil is in the details and perhaps they are going for small sidepods but with a different concept entirely, but I’m personally going to remain cautious before proclaiming this another Newey master stroke. I think it’s quite possible this could turn out to be a blunder. Let’s see.

[Mmgnt]

Any thoughts on the engine cover? Looks much much larger than last year (see below).

Perhaps they have some sort of internal S-ducting from the vertical inlets? Could they have added radiators or other cooling up there? Enough to, say, go with their own "zero pod" concept later?

I'm not familiar enough with typical layouts to have any intelligent guesses.

[Sieper]

My contact at MK has informed me that RB will indeed incorporate micro-sidepods, albeit not where you think.
First they replaced their twin air-to-air intercoolers with a water one, like most cars today, to empty up the sidepods. Therefore, the remaining sidepod cooling will be pushed into the monocoque recesses that were made for the intercoolers (as illustrated in my old drawing). Furthermore, they will continue to rely on a significant centerline cooling system. And to address the drag issue associated with the rear wheels, RB will put... delta-shaped & empty sidepods in front of them, as seen in the Brabham Bt55 or the Tyrrell 012 and other cars of that era.
https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-yzgoj/i ... 71.jpg?c=2

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGb5EgTWAAA ... name=large

I couldn't tell if this post was serious or not, but if so...intriguing.

Considering the poster hasn't elaborated and was the same guy who posted this (https://i.imgur.com/XN0DthO.png) in the RB20 speculation thread, I have a feeling we have a comedian on our hands. Could be wrong ofc.

Oh, haha, forgot that was him. The dickdrawer. Yes, so then we can scrap anything he says. Redbull might be up against some stiff competition, might not dicktate the field.

[PhF1x]

If I was Red Bull, this would be my first update. Shrink the rear of the sidepod (quite bulky now, conservative in terms of internal cooling ducts and adequate for these 3 hotter races) and bring down the upper inlet lip. A lot of lift reduction, and drag reduction by also generating thrust on the upper inlet lip. Overall decent efficiency increase. The colours are of course rough estimations of pressure plots
higher, ambient, low, lower

https://i.ibb.co/QdpTkTn/RB-20-evolution.jpg

Considering the surface of these sidepods, this update would be scary. Those who are regularly visiting this forum and have their hand on other cars, don't say you were surprised in a month and a half

I doubt anyone should. Redbull typically starts conservative and builds on that. The development path has alot of potential so it wouldn't make sense to rush and potentially throw away the advantage they have over the rest of the grid.

If anything they would fight with a couple teams for the first few races and then start bringing updates and widen the gap somewhat.

[OO7]

If I was Red Bull, this would be my first update. Shrink the rear of the sidepod (quite bulky now, conservative in terms of internal cooling ducts and adequate for these 3 hotter races) and bring down the upper inlet lip. A lot of lift reduction, and drag reduction by also generating thrust on the upper inlet lip. Overall decent efficiency increase. The colours are of course rough estimations of pressure plots
higher, ambient, low, lower

https://i.ibb.co/QdpTkTn/RB-20-evolution.jpg

Considering the surface of these sidepods, this update would be scary. Those who are regularly visiting this forum and have their hand on other cars, don't say you were surprised in a month and a half

That would require lifting the overbite and surrounding leading edge portions of the side pod above the height of the cockpit, unless the cooling system is altered. The cooling radiators and intercooler/s are long lead time items which typically remain fixed throughout a season. This is perhaps even more relevant given the budget cap.

[AR3-GP]

everyone is looking at sidepods but...

the engines are frozen so the amount of heat to dissipate is the same
airscope is slightly larger so the sidepods inlets can be slightly smaller
consequences:
the amount of air going under the sidepods is almost the same, i can't see an huge boost of performance coming from
here

the most impressive part of the car imho is the channel between the rear wheel ad the engine cover feeding the diffuser, they cleared the area a lot

The engines are not frozen. It's a sham regulation. There is no freeze. They have all been making changes.