Red Bull RB20

[mzso]

My contact at MK has informed me that RB will indeed incorporate micro-sidepods, albeit not where you think.
First they replaced their twin air-to-air intercoolers with a water one, like most cars today, to empty up the sidepods. Therefore, the remaining sidepod cooling will be pushed into the monocoque recesses that were made for the intercoolers (as illustrated in my old drawing). Furthermore, they will continue to rely on a significant centerline cooling system. And to address the drag issue associated with the rear wheels, RB will put... delta-shaped & empty sidepods in front of them, as seen in the Brabham Bt55 or the Tyrrell 012 and other cars of that era.
https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-yzgoj/i ... 71.jpg?c=2

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGb5EgTWAAA ... name=large

That sounds completely wild. Not sure if you are being serious. That would be a departure from like 50 years of sidepod convention, probably more radical than the idea of the zeropod we saw in 2022. That was just removing the sidepod. This is removing the sidepod and re-positioning it in a totally unconventional space.

Also, what would push the front tire wake away from sensitive parts?

[Farnborough]

And Renault from back then is a bad example, because as AN himself said, F1 was marketing for Renault back then. That is certainly not the case with Ferrari or Mercedes and also not for Renault today even if the latter are a little behind in some areas.

What do you mean? F1 is the beginning and the end for Ferrari marketing.

Perhaps to clarify my statement about this in regard to RB 20....observation of cooling compromise from the, as yet, unseen airflow entrance etc, is that AN (as already pointed out by andi76) is along with other designers completely aware of just how much the power unit requires.

My "supporting evidence" was of the V8 period from when I understood that the Renault was selected in advance of the Ferrari primarily on this metric by AN as it then allowed the aero performance to by pulled into a different performance envelope.

That appears to be what comments are about now with RB 20 and it's related radiator cooling entrance design compromise from initial appraisal of the images we've seen.

[Blackout]

Yes the "delta sidepods" thing was completely made up BS by my imaginary friend Fralco Nugles.

But what is true is that RB seems to do something different/clever/illegal/sinful with their exhaust manifolds. The pipes seem to be enclosed in an outer chamber in addition to the pipes heat shieldings (red) which is made of 2 parts (attachements holes blue)...
Do you have better pics?

It could be another heat insulation to further drop the external temperature of those manifolds, but in this case, the chamber needs air; ie an inlet and an outlet... and this ties up with some speculations about that little air exit RB18, 19 & 20 have near the rear suspensions...

2023 RB & AT

[AR3-GP]

Heating of the air inside a pre-chamber of sorts could increase the pressure. There could be a jet exiting from somewhere due to a pressure gradient. With that said, it could also just be an attempt to smooth out some of the tortuosity in the airflow.

[langedweil]

4 years earlier... viewtopic.php?t=28765

[AR3-GP]

Actually they look not much smaller than last years on some pics. The true size will only be seen in the tests and I bet that they will actually be similar to those of 2023. Everyone is just boiling water and no one can do magic.

AN is acutely aware of power unit heat rejection performance.....specifically making the choice of Renault over a Ferrari unit on this metric some years ago. They were contracted to run Ferrari, which they bumped into Torro Rosso to facilitate that contracted use.

Can't see it being an issue now.

On the other hand the 2014 RB immediately overheated in testing.

Given the much-maligned history of that PU, I doubt the surprise came from RB's side.

[mzso]

And Renault from back then is a bad example, because as AN himself said, F1 was marketing for Renault back then. That is certainly not the case with Ferrari or Mercedes and also not for Renault today even if the latter are a little behind in some areas.

What do you mean? F1 is the beginning and the end for Ferrari marketing.

Perhaps to clarify my statement about this in regard to RB 20....observation of cooling compromise from the, as yet, unseen airflow entrance etc, is that AN (as already pointed out by andi76) is along with other designers completely aware of just how much the power unit requires.

My "supporting evidence" was of the V8 period from when I understood that the Renault was selected in advance of the Ferrari primarily on this metric by AN as it then allowed the aero performance to by pulled into a different performance envelope.

That appears to be what comments are about now with RB 20 and it's related radiator cooling entrance design compromise from initial appraisal of the images we've seen.

Are you sure you quoted the right reply?
Anyway. As I mentioned, some blunders were made in 2014. Initially they could barely do a lap or two.
Not sure how much of it was Renault or RB's fault.

Given the much-maligned history of that PU, I doubt the surprise came from RB's side.

Perhaps. Though it still seems outlandish for a PU manufacturer to provide propaganda cooling requirements instead of real ones.

[DRCorsa]

Here's my opinion on the RB20.
The current sidepods are dummies.
The radiators are placed inside the cannons and the inlet air goes upward to the radiators. That's why their inlet is below and facing upwards.
Later they will just bring the smaller sidepods that will only be used just as airflow conditioning devices. They can do whatever they want with those "sidepods".

[PhF1x]

Here's my opinion on the RB20.
The current sidepods are dummies. The radiators are placed inside the cannons and the inlet air goes upward to the radiators. Later they will just bring the smaller sidepods.

https://i.ibb.co/qxfV5mc/RB20.png

That can work but that would make cooling harder especially in tracks like Mexico.

[AR3-GP]

Here's my opinion on the RB20.
The current sidepods are dummies. The radiators are placed inside the cannons and the inlet air goes upward to the radiators. Later they will just bring the smaller sidepods.

https://i.ibb.co/qxfV5mc/RB20.png

What is this picture from?

[DRCorsa]

Here's my opinion on the RB20.
The current sidepods are dummies. The radiators are placed inside the cannons and the inlet air goes upward to the radiators. Later they will just bring the smaller sidepods.

https://i.ibb.co/qxfV5mc/RB20.png

What is this picture from?

Found it somewhere on the net, through an Italian website, don't remember exactly.
I just wanted to show my opinion on their solution. The arrows and text are mine.

[K1Plus]

I bet the zeropods won't come in the full iteration, but the sidepods could be like the W14 B spec

[vorticism]

It could be another heat insulation to further drop the external temperature of those manifolds, but in this case, the chamber needs air; ie an inlet and an outlet...

I wouldn't say it needs it. The exhaust temp is relatively low in this formula, and the headers have full foil insulation. A ceramic coated carbon second insulation should not be threatened by static hot air envelope (or a low flow envelope with a small openings). You want to minimize heat loss before the turbine, a high flow duct would compromise this. If it's not detrimental then yes, maybe a heated aero duct is possible but I would expect the duct to be more shaped like a duct than what's visible on these cars. Plus it would only be smooth surface transfer of heat i.e. not much transfer. No fins nor pins on the exhaust manifold foil.

https://i.ibb.co/qxfV5mc/RB20.png

Good angle on the front wishbones' sweep angle there. Looks almost like the trailing arm yet it's the forward arm.

...sweep angle in green relative to the y axis in yellow.

viewtopic.php?p=1184785#p1184785
https://i.postimg.cc/Vk5PBDwz/rb2o-front-susp.jpg

[AR3-GP]

I bet the zeropods won't come in the full iteration, but the sidepods could be like the W14 B spec

I don't think it will be that either because RB seem to be focusing on sidepod undercut. The W14 (A or B) did not have significant undercut.

If anything, the shape of the sidepod and any extreme excavations would be in order to further establish an undercut.

[vorticism]

"Zeropods" has for the press become a convenient buzzword that we might have to interpret as "small sidepods of any shape." Ultimately if the sidepods shown thus far are dummies the real ones might be something like a deflated version of the FW44 sidepods. This could also be combined with a sidewall to make a sidepod waterslide larger than any seen thus far.




...or more speculatively a hollow anhedral droop sidepod like the falcon-wing-pods I suggested last year except with an RB20 type inlet or no inlet at all. The hole on the side of the drawing below is intended to illustrate a section view in that area.

..maximize the sidepod volume and hollow out the internals. Vary the gap to the floor to tune airflow per location.

...precise location of airflows at the side and rear of the floor, and tune-ability by switching out sidepods. I was thinking of calling it a wingpod because it resembles a tucked bird wing.

Interestingly the dual-engine-intake concept I proposed a couple of days ago only helps with small sidepods, because it leaves the roll hoop as strictly a radiator inlet.