Schumi comes back

[RacingManiac]

GP2 teams cant just go buy the tires for use whenever they want, they too have an in season testing ban.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21138.html

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73849

Fair enough, still not F1 tires.....

[siskue2005]

GP2 teams cant just go buy the tires for use whenever they want, they too have an in season testing ban.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21138.html

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73849

ok maybe
but what are u suggesting??
Ferrari and MS stole some gp2 tyres which was left over by some teams?
or that B'stone and Ferrari are cheating?
and do you know which yrs' GP2 tyres did MS use?

[jason.parker.86]

This is a load of non-sense. The whole "in-season" testing ban is a joke. As a result we now have a bunch of drivers coming into a sport, where they have absolutly no idea what to expect until the race weekend!

As for the MS + Ferrari "loop-hole" - I dont see the problem with it. They are testing a 2007 model car, with Gp2 tyres (which one can buy from eBay).

Finally - how anyone can suggest the GP2 tyre is the same as a F1 tyre needs their head testing. They are both round, and rubber but thats where the simularities end. They have a complete different make-up, differnt compounds etc!

Good luck to Schumi- just hope he gets to test a F60 before hand!

[The FOZ]

First, the Clienti program "test"

It was fully within Schumacher and Ferrari's right to test in the 2007 car. Lewis Hamilton could, in theory, go out between race weekends and get some runs in the 2007 car. JA could have gotten a few days' testing in the car before showing up at STR, if he, or STR, had the resources and/or inclination to do so.

This was simply a case of using the available resources to their fullest.

As for asking FOTA if they could have a one-day test, again, this is completely above-board of them. The in-season test ban is an agreement amongst teams, and Ferrari asked, and recieved permission from all the teams, so they're good to go.

What everyone seems to be forgetting, however, is...

With the exception of JA, each and every single racer Schumacher will be up against will have 30 or 40 times the mileage in a current-spec car than Schumacher will have gained between now and the next race. They are current and completely up to speed, he simply is not. Schumacher or not, they have a huge advantage over him, having actually been racing Formula 1 all season, long!

If he finishes in the points first race out, I'll be shocked.

[Conceptual]

What I find amazing is that the GP2 tyres actually seem to work well on the F2007 at all!

Remember, suspension is designed from the tyre inward, so for the F2007 + GP2 tyres to be 2 tenths faster than the F60 with the same engine (and probably no TC and simulated DF levels) is what really impresses me.

Sorry for the (kinda) OT post, but I asked in another forum in 2006 about using the GP2 slicks on an F1 car, and was told that they couldn't handle the power.

Oh, and PS:

When MS tested the F2007 without TC before the F2008 was launched, I seem to remember him saying how horrible the car was to drive and saying something along the lines of "It is obvious that this car was designed to use TC."

So, even tho the F60 test by Massa was in January, being faster AT ALL with this car configuration is impressive.

[ISLAMATRON]

with Gp2 tyres (which one can buy from eBay).

Finally - how anyone can suggest the GP2 tyre is the same as a F1 tyre needs their head testing. They are both round, and rubber but thats where the simularities end. They have a complete different make-up, differnt compounds etc!

The absurdity of that statement in bold is self evident...

and like others have pointed out, the F2007 on the GP2 tires was faster than the F60 test from this winter, if that does not speak of the similarity of the GP2 tire then I dont know what does.

Those of us who have been watching this sport for a while remember that when GP2 debuted they ran the grooved tires but the next year switched to a slick tire and the reason given was that GP2 was to be a test bed for technology and rules for F1 as well as a feeder series. Bridgestone often spoke about the similarities between its GP2 slicks and what it was developing for F1, and this is not the first time a GP2 tire has been fitted onto an F1 machine.

The GP2 tires are the exact same dimension as the F1 tires and I would guess they are made on the same exact machines, yes the construction(mainly side wall stiffness) and compound may vary slightly but not by too much seeing that the 2 series run on the same venues.

The 2 compounds cannot be too different, or else there would be compatability problems when they run the same track on the same weekends. And the durability must be there seeing how the GP2 feature races are more than half(60%) the length of the F1 race.

[FGD]

with Gp2 tyres (which one can buy from eBay).

Finally - how anyone can suggest the GP2 tyre is the same as a F1 tyre needs their head testing. They are both round, and rubber but thats where the simularities end. They have a complete different make-up, differnt compounds etc!

The absurdity of that statement in bold is self evident...

and like others have pointed out, the F2007 on the GP2 tires was faster than the F60 test from this winter, if that does not speak of the similarity of the GP2 tire then I dont know what does.

Those of us who have been watching this sport for a while remember that when GP2 debuted they ran the grooved tires but the next year switched to a slick tire and the reason given was that GP2 was to be a test bed for technology and rules for F1 as well as a feeder series. Bridgestone often spoke about the similarities between its GP2 slicks and what it was developing for F1, and this is not the first time a GP2 tire has been fitted onto an F1 machine.

The GP2 tires are the exact same dimension as the F1 tires and I would guess they are made on the same exact machines, yes the construction(mainly side wall stiffness) and compound may vary slightly but not by too much seeing that the 2 series run on the same venues.

The 2 compounds cannot be too different, or else there would be compatability problems when they run the same track on the same weekends. And the durability must be there seeing how the GP2 feature races are more than half(60%) the length of the F1 race.

This argument is in istelf absurd. The F2007 was designed to run with grooved tires. Different compounds, construction and a significantly smaller contact patch. And, by the way... WHO CARES!

After all the bad press F1 has been getting over the past few months, Schumacher returning is the most exciting and positive news for the sport so far this year.

[RacingManiac]

But GP2 tire can be "similar" to F1 tire, but its not still not F1 tire. Its unlikely that the GP2 tires have more than one compound and construction, while F1 tire, albeit dialed back from the tirewar days, still features 4 variant design to run on specific type of tracks. It is likely that GP2 tire is more conservative in its makeup(read, durable and longer life, less grip).

Besides, this still does not violate any rules at all. They are running 2 year old cars, without the race team crew, they aren't using current F1 tires(Cats and lions are similar, but a cat is still not a lion...). So what have they done wrong so far in this?

[ISLAMATRON]

But GP2 tire can be "similar" to F1 tire, but its not still not F1 tire. Its unlikely that the GP2 tires have more than one compound and construction, while F1 tire, albeit dialed back from the tirewar days, still features 4 variant design to run on specific type of tracks. It is likely that GP2 tire is more conservative in its makeup(read, durable and longer life, less grip).

Besides, this still does not violate any rules at all. They are running 2 year old cars, without the race team crew, they aren't using current F1 tires(Cats and lions are similar, but a cat is still not a lion...). So what have they done wrong so far in this?

There are 3 different compounds, soft medium & hard of GP2 compound.

Never said it violates the rules, but it does violate the "spirit of the rules" which was Ferrari's argument against the DDD's. If he got a day of testing in the F60, it would violate the rules, unless of course the teams agreed to it. He should only be allowed straight line testing, just as any other driver would this year, regardless of who he is.

[dave34m]

Well we all should care, there are rules set out for the season. Toro Rosso had to send a 19 year kid out on track without a single lap in a F1 car, just think about that for a moment, not a single lap before having compete against the top drivers anywhere in cars they had developed all year.

OK so they could have used an older car but that wouldnt help much really and Schumacher driving the F2007 is probably is a good compromise for Ferrari in getting trained up a bit but having a days testing in the F60 should not be allowed. Honestly we all should care, Schumacher has 3 free practice sessions before the race, the same as Alguersuari had, there really is no good reason for Ferrari to have special treatment here. If he is a god on the track as some here clearly believe then he won't need it.

[modbaraban]

The thread should be renamed into 'Schumi comes back with some tires'

[RacingManiac]

If some random guy in the Clienti program ran the F2007, does that violate the spirit of the rule as well? Because I'd imagine with enough dough, he can get his hands on GP2 tires as well, its just so happen that this time its Schumacher, and that he is schedule to be in an F1 race.

I still think the in STR's case it's their lack of foresight to NOT let JA test first in car of similar performance and thrown him straight in the deep end, and it was FIA's strange decision in not maintaining some kind of standard for the issuing of the super license, as they have clearly done before with other youngster coming into F1. Something is not right in that process, and really should not be the standard. As so many liked to point out in the DDD business, the rule was there for them to use and many didn't, that argument works just as well here.

[The FOZ]

Never said it violates the rules, but it does violate the "spirit of the rules" which was Ferrari's argument against the DDD's. If he got a day of testing in the F60, it would violate the rules, unless of course the teams agreed to it. He should only be allowed straight line testing, just as any other driver would this year, regardless of who he is.

The spirit of the rules is that no driver gain additional in-car practice and no car additional development beyond their competitors.

Now, under the gentleman's agreement of no in-season testing, you're absolutely right, all he should get is straight-line testing in the current car.

However, there is a very common-sense reason for Ferrari to ask that he be allowed more than a straight-line test, and there's a very common-sense reason for the teams to allow them that; SAFETY.

It is not reasonable for anyone, even Schumi, to get in a F1 car, moreover, one so very different from what he was used to, after several years of no racing experience, and then share a track with 19 other drivers. It would be a ridiculous, unnecessary risk, and completely unacceptable on the heels of Surtees and Massa's accidents.

Ferrari aren't going to win the WCC, and Schumi is not going to win the WDC, so don't kid yourself, this isn't a move to get the upper hand in a close-fought championship battle, this is a simple safety call.

[djos]

Well Put FOZ!

[alelanza]

Not sure i understand the fuzz about letting him test. Schumacher's return is not only good for Ferrari, it is good for all of F1. Anyone with the slightest investment in F1 will be greatly benefited from this, FOTA agreeing to the test is not surprising at all. If anything all the teams along with Bernie might as well chip in to pay his salary or whatever fee Weber got out of Ferrari.
Every single sponsor in F1 was significantly happier this week after the news broke out. Personally, even though not a ferrari/schumi fan, i'm delighted to see him return, it's what the sport needs in these dire times. And if he does return, he should be able to be competitive, if he proves to be a failure in Valencia, it will be to the detriment of all of F1, not just him or the red guys. So I want him to do well, let him test, in fact let all the teams have one day of testing for rookies or whatever along with him.