2024 Season Bickering and Moaning

[stonehenge]

You could argue that Liberty doesn't have to pay out as much prize money, when the teams don't need as much money for their survival. In this way, they can keep a larger percentage of the revenue while also not starving the teams who are the animals in the zoo so to speak...

Per current Concorde Agreement the team prize pot equates to 50% of F1’s commercial rights profit. The budget cap doesn't affect the prize money, at least not in the way you're suggesting.

The current concorde agreement expires in 2025.

Teams won't give up their share of the prize money that's absurd...

[JordanMugen]

I was also extemely sceptical about BoP at first, but after a season of following WEC and IMSA as closely as F1 last year, I have a different opinion now. It’s not about penalizing teams who are doing better than others, it’s about bringing everyone into a window of performance where you hopefully don’t see a team run away with things and make it completely boring. No one can sit back and do nothing and wait for a helping hand, you still have to work hard to make a difference and be able to win.

I strongly disagree. How are Acura supposed to win the Daytona 24 hour with 20 kg more than anyone else?

Nobody knows if it is Acura's fault for doing a bad job or the fault of the extra 20kg. It is absolutely horrible.

An average of 3 tenths per lap slower than the 2023 race would put the blame squarely on the extra 20kg for taking Acura out of contention. Grossly unfair IMO.

The smugness of arrogant German manufacturers gaming the system with giant V8 twin-turbos is the icing on the cake. It goes against all principles of good racing car design, it is utterly horrible -- a superior design with a sleek, compact, well-packaged 2.4L engine with tidy F1-like installation should be rewarded.

It becomes a parameter you have to take into account when designing the car to make it work in as many conditions as possible and make sure you operate perfectly to execute a flawless race. Hence, the best team and best drivers will still make the difference.

The BMW has a mess of wires and hoses, it is horrendous. It is inelegant in the extreme. To think they (being very arrogant) think they can get a BOP advantage with a huge twin-turbo engine, disgusting.

How are you supposed to win the race with 20kg more than any other car? It's ridiculous and unacceptable.

Repeat after me: Make it a competition like MotoGP! That is the way motor racing should be! If HRC does a rubbish job, it is 100% on HRC.

[AMG.Tzan]

I love how Red Bull fans are all relaxed and joking 2 years now because they’re winning all the time! But where was this mentality during 2014-2020? Even your boss Horner was moaning like crazy half way through 2014…

For some reason people tend to think that engines aren’t part of an f1 car and so they shouldn’t play a role in the performance! For years Red Bull fans had been moaning about how Mercedes built an illegal engine and how unfair it is that Red Bull can’t find a proper engine…as if they weren’t winning back in 2011 because of Renault’s off throttle blowing!

Now what’s the real problem with these rules etc you may ask! Alright let me answer this:
-Why did we implement a budget cap? So that teams get closer together
-Why did we implement a sliding scale development restriction? So that teams get closer together
-Why did we implement more prescriptive aero and chassis design? Hmm for better racing first of all, but also so that teams get closer together!

So where are we after 2+ years of these rules?
We’re experiencing the worst domination in the history of the sport! Top 5 teams are exactly the same as they were before all those rules, plus the leading team is so far ahead and because of the budget and development restrictions nobody can get anywhere near them!

So what’s the point of continuing with these rules? At least let teams spend whatever they like to catch Red Bull! Or else just go to a BoP system (which seems to work quite well in IMSA, WEC) and have a proper championship…

And don’t start with the argument that the field spread is 1,9% cause it is ridiculous since 0,6% of that spread is only between first and second
The field spread for 2020 was 2,6% (better than most other seasons) yet guess who was winning by miles…

[CaribouBread]

wait let me try this, this seems very fun, imagine this is 2020
I love how Mercedes fans are all relaxed and joking 6 years now because they’re winning all the time! But where was this mentality during 2009-2013? Even your boss Toto was moaning like crazy half way through 2013…

Some of you would fold in half by now if you were Ferrari fans let me tell you

[Cs98]

I love how Red Bull fans are all relaxed and joking 2 years now because they’re winning all the time! But where was this mentality during 2014-2020? Even your boss Horner was moaning like crazy half way through 2014…

For some reason people tend to think that engines aren’t part of an f1 car and so they shouldn’t play a role in the performance! For years Red Bull fans had been moaning about how Mercedes built an illegal engine and how unfair it is that Red Bull can’t find a proper engine…as if they weren’t winning back in 2011 because of Renault’s off throttle blowing!

Now what’s the real problem with these rules etc you may ask! Alright let me answer this:
-Why did we implement a budget cap? So that teams get closer together
-Why did we implement a sliding scale development restriction? So that teams get closer together
-Why did we implement more prescriptive aero and chassis design? Hmm for better racing first of all, but also so that teams get closer together!

So where are we after 2+ years of these rules?
We’re experiencing the worst domination in the history of the sport! Top 5 teams are exactly the same as they were before all those rules, plus the leading team is so far ahead and because of the budget and development restrictions nobody can get anywhere near them!

So what’s the point of continuing with these rules? At least let teams spend whatever they like to catch Red Bull! Or else just go to a BoP system (which seems to work quite well in IMSA, WEC) and have a proper championship…

And don’t start with the argument that the field spread is 1,9% cause it is ridiculous since 0,6% of that spread is only between first and second
The field spread for 2020 was 2,6% (better than most other seasons) yet guess who was winning by miles…

Did you go out and campaign for BoP from 2014-2020?

Given we are getting all this anger after two years of dominance from a team, surely after 6 years of Merc winning you must have been absolutely livid! No?

[AMG.Tzan]

I was also extemely sceptical about BoP at first, but after a season of following WEC and IMSA as closely as F1 last year, I have a different opinion now. It’s not about penalizing teams who are doing better than others, it’s about bringing everyone into a window of performance where you hopefully don’t see a team run away with things and make it completely boring. No one can sit back and do nothing and wait for a helping hand, you still have to work hard to make a difference and be able to win.

I strongly disagree. How are Acura supposed to win the Daytona 24 hour with 20 kg more than anyone else?

Nobody knows if it is Acura's fault for doing a bad job or the fault of the extra 20kg. It is absolutely horrible.

An average of 3 tenths per lap slower than the 2023 race would put the blame squarely on the extra 20kg for taking Acura out of contention. Grossly unfair IMO.

The smugness of arrogant German manufacturers gaming the system with giant V8 twin-turbos is the icing on the cake. It goes against all principles of good racing car design, it is utterly horrible -- a superior design with a sleek, compact, well-packaged 2.4L engine with tidy F1-like installation should be rewarded.

It becomes a parameter you have to take into account when designing the car to make it work in as many conditions as possible and make sure you operate perfectly to execute a flawless race. Hence, the best team and best drivers will still make the difference.

The BMW has a mess of wires and hoses, it is horrendous. It is inelegant in the extreme. To think they (being very arrogant) think they can get a BOP advantage with a huge twin-turbo engine, disgusting.

How are you supposed to win the race with 20kg more than any other car? It's ridiculous and unacceptable.

Repeat after me: Make it a competition like MotoGP! That is the way motor racing should be! If HRC does a rubbish job, it is 100% on HRC.

Yeah I have been a Honda-Marquez fanatic for years too but MotoGP works quite differently to formula 1!

First of all there are 8 Ducatis right now on the grid and even the legend himself Marquez preferred a year old satellite Ducati than a factory Honda!

Now imagine if f1 had to go down that route and allow 8 Red Bulls on the grid

MotoGP too wasn’t in a great place until they decided to give concessions to teams! Now you could argue that F1 is doing the same with the sliding scale development but it gives nowhere near as much development scope as MotoGP’s new concession system…

[AMG.Tzan]

I love how Red Bull fans are all relaxed and joking 2 years now because they’re winning all the time! But where was this mentality during 2014-2020? Even your boss Horner was moaning like crazy half way through 2014…

For some reason people tend to think that engines aren’t part of an f1 car and so they shouldn’t play a role in the performance! For years Red Bull fans had been moaning about how Mercedes built an illegal engine and how unfair it is that Red Bull can’t find a proper engine…as if they weren’t winning back in 2011 because of Renault’s off throttle blowing!

Now what’s the real problem with these rules etc you may ask! Alright let me answer this:
-Why did we implement a budget cap? So that teams get closer together
-Why did we implement a sliding scale development restriction? So that teams get closer together
-Why did we implement more prescriptive aero and chassis design? Hmm for better racing first of all, but also so that teams get closer together!

So where are we after 2+ years of these rules?
We’re experiencing the worst domination in the history of the sport! Top 5 teams are exactly the same as they were before all those rules, plus the leading team is so far ahead and because of the budget and development restrictions nobody can get anywhere near them!

So what’s the point of continuing with these rules? At least let teams spend whatever they like to catch Red Bull! Or else just go to a BoP system (which seems to work quite well in IMSA, WEC) and have a proper championship…

And don’t start with the argument that the field spread is 1,9% cause it is ridiculous since 0,6% of that spread is only between first and second
The field spread for 2020 was 2,6% (better than most other seasons) yet guess who was winning by miles…

Did you go out and campaign for BoP from 2014-2020?

Given we are getting all this anger after two years of dominance from a team, surely after 6 years of Merc winning you must have been absolutely livid! No?

I don’t remember there being a budget cap and development rules in place during 2014-2020 so that the field is closer together…

Had there been such rules Mercedes plus engine freezing Mercedes would have won 99% of the races…

And just to remind you during 2014-2021 we had 6 championships going down to at least the last 3 races of the season! 3 of them (2014, 2016, 2021) all went down to the last race of the year!

The 2022 and 2023 championships ended by the end of September…

[Cs98]

I love how Red Bull fans are all relaxed and joking 2 years now because they’re winning all the time! But where was this mentality during 2014-2020? Even your boss Horner was moaning like crazy half way through 2014…

For some reason people tend to think that engines aren’t part of an f1 car and so they shouldn’t play a role in the performance! For years Red Bull fans had been moaning about how Mercedes built an illegal engine and how unfair it is that Red Bull can’t find a proper engine…as if they weren’t winning back in 2011 because of Renault’s off throttle blowing!

Now what’s the real problem with these rules etc you may ask! Alright let me answer this:
-Why did we implement a budget cap? So that teams get closer together
-Why did we implement a sliding scale development restriction? So that teams get closer together
-Why did we implement more prescriptive aero and chassis design? Hmm for better racing first of all, but also so that teams get closer together!

So where are we after 2+ years of these rules?
We’re experiencing the worst domination in the history of the sport! Top 5 teams are exactly the same as they were before all those rules, plus the leading team is so far ahead and because of the budget and development restrictions nobody can get anywhere near them!

So what’s the point of continuing with these rules? At least let teams spend whatever they like to catch Red Bull! Or else just go to a BoP system (which seems to work quite well in IMSA, WEC) and have a proper championship…

And don’t start with the argument that the field spread is 1,9% cause it is ridiculous since 0,6% of that spread is only between first and second
The field spread for 2020 was 2,6% (better than most other seasons) yet guess who was winning by miles…

Did you go out and campaign for BoP from 2014-2020?

Given we are getting all this anger after two years of dominance from a team, surely after 6 years of Merc winning you must have been absolutely livid! No?

I don’t remember there being a budget cap and development rules in place during 2014-2020 so that the field is closer together…

Had there been such rules Mercedes plus engine freezing Mercedes would have won 99% of the races…

It's all above board and fair when your favourite team is doing the winning, credit where credit is due. But when they drop off due to their own ineptitude, then "it's the rules" and "We need BoP!". Two seasons of not being world beaters and you want to change the fundamental nature of the sport. I call that entitled moaning. Enjoy the season!

[f1jcw]

It's all above board and fair

erm, Budget cap, AD21, 2 teams, valkyrie..

[Cs98]

It's all above board and fair

erm, Budget cap, AD21, 2 teams, valkyrie..

I guess AD was just so traumatising they forgot how to build a car Enjoy the season!

[dren]

Looks like Hamilton won't get that 8th.

[Chuckjr]

Certainly no team should be penalized for winning. That’s not an option.

But Liberty has no shame for the history and heritage of the sport as we see more and more of the old tracks disappear and more hideous street tracks appear, the sprint races, and extremely cringy TV production amongst other travesties….I’ve no doubt should Red Bull win for the next two years (and I really don’t see anyone being able to touch them) Liberty will do something and it will have zero to do with making the sport more authentic or true to the history that brought success to the sport.

Liberty gimmicks and shenanigans will likely turn F1 into a true Barnum and Bailey fiasco.

My hope is that they can find a way to celebrate rather than chastise winning. Only New England fans celebrated the utter dominance of Tom Brady and the Patriots, and the NFL has simply marketed having a dominant team. The same thing is happening now with Mahomes and the Chiefs. Maybe the FIA can learn from the NFL to appreciate a dominant leader/team and market the rest of the competitors chase to reach the sharp end rather than continuously messing with the rules. It’s the picture of a dog chasing it’s tail as rhe FIA go through motions of trying to equate everybody.

At some point they have to realize it’s not going to work trying to hyper-control and micro manage the game. Is the NFL rigged? Likely, but they still have dominant teams despite all the NFL does to force parity. At the end of the day there will be 1 or 2 figures who simply will be smarter than anyone else in any sport. It’s just the way it is. Even Tennis and weightlifting has their dominators. Basketball had Jordan. Boxing had Ali and Tyson. As much as I don’t like dominance in any sport, I don’t believe forcing parity is the solution.

I think the FIA would be much better off just leaving it alone and allowing within this and the 2026 rule set, for the teams to perform as they will. If a team dominates, celebrate their prowess. It is what it is.

I did like the dominance of the Ferrari Schumacher era but I didn’t like the Red Bull Vettel or Mercedes Lewis dominance eras. I do like this current Max Red Bull dominance era. It’s just the way the sport seems to roll. Every once in a while you get a 2012. A turbo era. A v10 era. The sport seems to ebb and flow in ecstatic waves like any sport and the FIA would be smart to go wu wei with this and ride the waves like a surfer rather than go against them like a battleship.

[stonehenge]

My hope is that they can find a way to celebrate rather than chastise winning. Only New England fans celebrated the utter dominance of Tom Brady and the Patriots, and the NFL has simply marketed having a dominant team. The same thing is happening now with Mahomes and the Chiefs. Maybe the FIA can learn from the NFL to appreciate a dominant leader/team and market the rest of the competitors chase to reach the sharp end rather than continuously messing with the rules. It’s the picture of a dog chasing it’s tail as rhe FIA go through motions of trying to equate everybody.

But football and F1 are completely different sports. Yes the Patriots won a lot, but they had to fight hard for those wins and the games were still interesting. Think of the comeback win against the Falcons or the game against the Seahawks that went down to the line and ended with quite a controversial play call from the Seahawks. If there's a tough battle it's still interesting even if one team wins a lot! Likewise, in F1, dominant eras can be interesting if it's still a tight battle, either with other teams or between teammates. But if one team (and for the most part one driver) wins every race except one and does so by being wayyyy ahead in every race to the point that there is basically no question who will win, it's very different.

I think one season like last is okay for F1. The stopwatch never lies and will expose every one of your shortcomings. That's part of the allure of the sport to me. Red Bull did a tremendous job and should receive all of the praise. It was a dominant season that we will look back on in awe. BUT, two more seasons that are more of the same will be hard to stomach. Even for Red Bull fans, or fans who were enjoying watching a record-breaking season.

[chrisc90]

I dont have any problem with a single team dominance. If they built a good car, then hats off to them. Its excellent for driver or team fans. (if your favourite football team won every weekend you'd also be happy).
Only thing you tend to find is the fans of other teams/drivers say it gets boring, its not exciting, its always 1 team winning. I see the point. When the share of competitiveness drops then people become bored or look for reason to complain.
Cycle of sport and business really. Some strive, some are a close step behind whilst some struggle.

Sometimes a spec racing series be better for some. But if you had one driver that was better than the others, people would still find reason to complain, but it removes a variable out of the equation.

Fair play to any team/driver that can excel really.

[organic]

It would be a lot better if Norris wanted to come to RB. Would be a proper championship fight