Mercedes W15

[Formula 1 fan]

Does anyone expect Mercedes to bring any major upgrades for the Bahrain race such as a new rear wing or perhaps some other major upgrade?

[Zynerji]

The changeable front susp. is a fun thing but I have a niggling thought, shouldn't they have a solid idea what to go with even before they turn a lap - both on kinematics and aero effects? This surely isn't going to be change from race to race. I don't like that they're still looking for a direction on the front susp. - doesn't inspire confidence in my opinion.

I expect the adjustable part would be replaced after FP3 with a "solid" part that weighs less. Like a 3d printed bushing.

It’s not just the attachment point or the cover. The back-up structure needs to be designed to take loads from both pick-up points so extra weight there if they want to maintain the adjustability. Even if they choose one position, not sure monocoque can be changed without crash test.

I obviously do not know the specifics of the inner structure, but the torsional stiffness of the chassis is measured from the front bulkhead. I imagine this load path would (mostly) be similar at any point of the arc plane around the central axis. So I don't think it's all about the overweight structure.

My incorrect assumption was that the mounting bracket had an X/Y adjustment with additional hardware that they were using to find the sweet spot, then on-site manufacturing a low weight fixed unit for actual competition.

In the simplest terms, this is no different than what they did with the pre-2022 rear wing endplate mounts.

[stonehenge]

Any indication as to whether the modular suspension pickup points at the front are also at the back? Would make sense if they were--Mercedes' launch spec had a very horizontal crossbar at the rear suspension that made a lot of people look twice. Also, that Mercedes rear end looked very unstable at times during testing, yet the team seems fully convinced that the rear end is fixed this year. Maybe that's explained by them trying out different settings on the rear suspension and knowing which is the correct one (at least for Bahrain) to provide stability?

[hollus]

Posts talking about gained tenths, track position, season over... have been deleted or will be shortly. The posters got (get) the text back, you are welcome to post them in the team thread or, perhaps better, the race threads.
As usual every year at this time:
a) Welcome to all the newbies!
b) No lap times, no track or championship position, no winning and losing in the car threads. Only hardware here, winning and losing goes in the team and race threads. Thanks.

[Rootsap]

http://www.silverarrows.net/news/andrew ... h-the-w15/

[Jdn1327]

I expect the adjustable part would be replaced after FP3 with a "solid" part that weighs less. Like a 3d printed bushing.

It’s not just the attachment point or the cover. The back-up structure needs to be designed to take loads from both pick-up points so extra weight there if they want to maintain the adjustability. Even if they choose one position, not sure monocoque can be changed without crash test.

I obviously do not know the specifics of the inner structure, but the torsional stiffness of the chassis is measured from the front bulkhead. I imagine this load path would (mostly) be similar at any point of the arc plane around the central axis. So I don't think it's all about the overweight structure.

My incorrect assumption was that the mounting bracket had an X/Y adjustment with additional hardware that they were using to find the sweet spot, then on-site manufacturing a low weight fixed unit for actual competition.

In the simplest terms, this is no different than what they did with the pre-2022 rear wing endplate mounts.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... /10579682/

Very interesting article about the new suspension

[bigpat]

The adjustable suspension pickup points are definitely nothing new, being featured on all manner of racing cars for decades.

The pickup point on the W15 chassis would be consistent with the area of the bulkhead where the torsion bars react through. Back in the day, the rear leg would anchor at the dash bulkhead, but with the drivers feet now behind the axle centreline, its all different.
The fact that the current tunnel cars are much more height and pitch sensitive than previous generation cars has brought back the need for adjustability. In this cost cap era, having a more modular, adjustable design to the car is a smarter option. The Ferrari seems to be built this way too.

The difference in positions on the W15 front end is quite large, traditionally an adjustment of 10 -15mm was considered significant...

The Dallara F3 cars from the 90's had internal front suspension pick up 'pockets' that could be turned upside down, or spaced out with ferrules to alter geometry.

Adjustable pick ups are much more prevalent at the rear on the gearbox casings, to fine tune anti squat geometries. A recent video by Driver 61 shows a 1997 Jordan F1 gearbox with the multiple pick up points

[zibby43]

Found this to be quite interesting from a design choice perspective.

[djones]

The theory in that video about a high CoG seems somewhat flawed to me.

Scarbs says the Merc was much faster near the end of the race when it was lighter.

But if it was about weight with fuel loads then why were they also crap in qualifying on light tanks.

[mkay]

The theory in that video about a high CoG seems somewhat flawed to me.

Scarbs says the Merc was much faster near the end of the race when it was lighter.

But if it was about weight with fuel loads then why were they also crap in qualifying on light tanks.

IIRC Mercedes underperforming in qualifying was tyre-related. They were rarely able to put the get the tyres in the optimal window for 1-lap. On the flip side, that very issue was beneficial over a race stint/distance as it meant very gentle tyre deg.

[zibby43]

The theory in that video about a high CoG seems somewhat flawed to me.

Scarbs says the Merc was much faster near the end of the race when it was lighter.

But if it was about weight with fuel loads then why were they also crap in qualifying on light tanks.

IIRC Mercedes underperforming in qualifying was tyre-related. They were rarely able to put the get the tyres in the optimal window for 1-lap. On the flip side, that very issue was beneficial over a race stint/distance as it meant very gentle tyre deg.

Yes. As a general rule, tire prep is without a doubt the most significant performance factor/differentiator in qualifying, which is why DAS was such a clever invention.

[ing.]

The adjustable suspension pickup points are definitely nothing new, being featured on all manner of racing cars for decades.

The pickup point on the W15 chassis would be consistent with the area of the bulkhead where the torsion bars react through. Back in the day, the rear leg would anchor at the dash bulkhead, but with the drivers feet now behind the axle centreline, its all different.
The fact that the current tunnel cars are much more height and pitch sensitive than previous generation cars has brought back the need for adjustability. In this cost cap era, having a more modular, adjustable design to the car is a smarter option. The Ferrari seems to be built this way too.

The difference in positions on the W15 front end is quite large, traditionally an adjustment of 10 -15mm was considered significant...

The Dallara F3 cars from the 90's had internal front suspension pick up 'pockets' that could be turned upside down, or spaced out with ferrules to alter geometry.

Adjustable pick ups are much more prevalent at the rear on the gearbox casings, to fine tune anti squat geometries. A recent video by Driver 61 shows a 1997 Jordan F1 gearbox with the multiple pick up points

Indeed, it was very normal to see single-seaters, especially the junior formulae, having multiple pick-up points—mostly at the rear, on the gearbox—as you mentioned.

These alternate pick-up points were used to retain certain roll-center heights and camber gain settings for varying ride heights and/or different tire characteristics across the different national series.

The affect on roll-center and camber gain characteristics with this change on W15—roll-center height will be raised and camber gain will have been increased by lowering even only the rear leg pick-up point—is something that has not been mentioned in all the “technical” analyses probably because of all the current hype (or misinformation) around “anti-dive” by the said “analysts”.

[organic]

AMuS (via Tobi Grüner) : Mercedes can move the top wishbone in two different positions with the new W15. But the more extreme anti-dive configuration will probably not be used anymore as the car felt worse for the drivers on the last day of testing.

The engineers had already suspected before the last day of testing that the changed kinematics would have a negative impact on driving behavior. Nevertheless, the experiment was carried out to collect additional data. Although the pilots complained, the technicians viewed the result as positive. At least we now know that we can trust the simulations. The correlation with the route is correct.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ive-trick/

[chrstphrln]

AMuS (via Tobi Grüner) : Mercedes can move the top wishbone in two different positions with the new W15. But the more extreme anti-dive configuration will probably not be used anymore as the car felt worse for the drivers on the last day of testing.

The engineers had already suspected before the last day of testing that the changed kinematics would have a negative impact on driving behavior. Nevertheless, the experiment was carried out to collect additional data. Although the pilots complained, the technicians viewed the result as positive. At least we now know that we can trust the simulations. The correlation with the route is correct.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ive-trick/

I was surprised by this statement.
The uncertainty must be very great at Mercedes.

[organic]