Christian Horner under Investigation

[west52keep64]

One thing that is clear right now is that this is not going away, and it's a big problem for the Red Bull brand. There's an argument that Horner's position in the team is becoming untenable.

[stonehenge]

The pictures being highlighted from a different scandal are not in the folder. That was clearly someone taking the originally leaked pictures and adding extras for some perverted clout.

Specifically files 17 and 21 in the tweet with the fake pics are screenshots of textmessages on the Google drive.

Yeah this ^^^. Someone clearly doctored in the explicit pics. That does not mean the rest are also fake!

It certainly casts serious doubt on the entire "leak" tho.

And no one seems to be picking up the fact that this whole incident was about "controlling behaviour", not sexual misconduct. It looks to me like someone is trying to frame him.

I don't think you quite understand what we're referring to. The explicit images look like they are superimposed onto the original leaked photo of the drive. The two explicit pictures are in the same location and labeled the same (File-17.png and File-21.png) as other (non-explicit) pictures in the original leak. In other words, someone simply photoshopped them on top of the original leak. It doesn't say anything about whether the original one is fake.

Also, anyone who still wants to discuss this, please go on Twitter (or X I guess) and look at the posts by https://twitter.com/JackDaniel8008. They have access to the full drive. There's a lot more there than just the one screenshot that's been floating around. Please inform yourselves before speculating. That goes for everyone!

[dans79]

There's an argument that Horner's position in the team is becoming untenable.

Possibly, if it hurts the company enough they might pay him to leave, even if his contract doesn't have some kind of buy out clause.

If Rb was a publicly traded company we could gauge how bad (if at all) its hurting the company by looking at the stock price.

[Cs98]

The Controlling behavior complaint was amended a long time ago. Detelegraaf has reiterated today that the complaint was about sexual misconduct and the leak, if real, proves that it was sexual misconduct. I dont understand how redbull cant just publish an official statement saying the leaked pictures are fake. Wait. Maybe its because theyre not. Just maybe…

Because RB ownership is fractured and the Thais forced their will on this for some reason. Idk if it's a culture thing, a loyalty thing towards Horner, whatever, they are being irrational and it's hurting their own brand.

[SoulPancake13]

Yeah this ^^^. Someone clearly doctored in the explicit pics. That does not mean the rest are also fake!

It certainly casts serious doubt on the entire "leak" tho.

And no one seems to be picking up the fact that this whole incident was about "controlling behaviour", not sexual misconduct. It looks to me like someone is trying to frame him.

I don't think you quite understand what we're referring to. The explicit images look like they are superimposed onto the original leaked photo of the drive. The two explicit pictures are in the same location and labeled the same (File-17.png and File-21.png) as other (non-explicit) pictures in the original leak. In other words, someone simply photoshopped them on top of the original leak. It doesn't say anything about whether the original one is fake.

Also, anyone who still wants to discuss this, please go on Twitter (or X I guess) and look at the posts by https://twitter.com/JackDaniel8008. They have access to the full drive. There's a lot more there than just the one screenshot that's been floating around. Please inform yourselves before speculating. That goes for everyone!

Holy ---. If this is real... how has Horner been allowed to stay on as TP?

[mkay]

There's an argument that Horner's position in the team is becoming untenable.

Possibly, if it hurts the company enough they might pay him to leave, even if his contract doesn't have some kind of buy out clause.

If Rb was a publicly traded company we could gauge how bad (if at all) its hurting the company by looking at the stock price.

His behaviour in this whole affair would fall under willful misconduct. I doubt RB would have to pay him anything, unless he's got something in his employment contract that guarantees a payout (highly unlikely).

[TFSA]

So I've just gone through the[*] entire folder in regards to the WhatsApp messages, and - ignoring the content - a few things stuck out to me.

All of the WhatsApp screenshots - and i mean every single one - are taken at the very same time they were sent. There is not a single screenshot, where the timestamp of the messages are from previous days. The timestamps all indicate that all of the conversation was screenshotted as it happened. No exceptions through the entire folder.

Now, this is extremely unlikely in the first place that someone would be screenshotting this from the start, and always when it happened. Typically, once would screenshot a chat once it became obvious it was necessary, by scrolling through the chat and include previous days conservations. But it also conflicts with the narrative of the conversation, which is that it started out "okay-ish" (still inappropriate/suggestive), and then got progressively worse. Typically, you'd only first start screenshotting once you've realized that this is going a bad place, and then you'd have to scroll back through the days.

Also:

• not a single of these pictures has a date stamp, except one picture taken from the phones home screen.
• most of the photos of Horner lack context. Very few are included in the conversation, but the rest aren't. Pictures like that needs context, so it's weird the context is missing for most of those.
• every single WhatsApp picture is its own conversation. There's not a single example i can find in the folder, where it's a longer conversation that required more than one screenshot.
• All of the files lack EXIF-metadata. I was unable to confirm whether this is normal for iPhone screenshots, as I'm not an Apple-user and Google didn't give me anything.

All of that somewhat screams "Fake chat app" to me.

On the other hand, there's stuff in there i couldn't find in other places - like a video of Christian Horner singing American Pie while someone is playing the guitar. But perhaps my Google skills isn't up to the task.

Overall, I'm weirded out - and it's not by what I've seen in the folder, but the entire situation in general.

[Watto]

His behaviour in this whole affair would fall under willful misconduct. I doubt RB would have to pay him anything, unless he's got something in his employment contract that guarantees a payout (highly unlikely).
[/quote]If the leak is real I think hes probably gone. But like always with anything on the internet there are always people willing to fake it. If it was legit and the victim wasn't happy with how RB handled it can see the leak coming for a to even more force their hand. Likewise there has been plenty of time for someone to mock up these images too but its certainly not good for RB atm

You can see in this thread alone the mix of RB fans that all clear move on and oppo fans that just see it as CH/RB paid off the victim to make it all go away just from selective reading SM is pretty bad for that block people who disagree you suddenly get a very very one sided chat..

[bagajohny]

All of the WhatsApp screenshots - and i mean every single one - are taken at the very same time they were sent. There is not a single screenshot, where the timestamp of the messages are from previous days. The timestamps all indicate that all of the conversation was screenshotted as it happened. No exceptions through the entire folder.

Now, this is extremely unlikely in the first place that someone would be screenshotting this from the start, and always when it happened. Typically, once would screenshot a chat once it became obvious it was necessary, by scrolling through the chat and include previous days conservations. But it also conflicts with the narrative of the conversation, which is that it started out "okay-ish" (still inappropriate/suggestive), and then got progressively worse. Typically, you'd only first start screenshotting once you've realized that this is going a bad place, and then you'd have to scroll back through the days.

You make a very valid point here. I did not think about it while looking at them. I think this is a very important detail.

[stonehenge]

So I've just gone through the[*] entire folder in regards to the WhatsApp messages, and - ignoring the content - a few things stuck out to me.

All of the WhatsApp screenshots - and i mean every single one - are taken at the very same time they were sent. There is not a single screenshot, where the timestamp of the messages are from previous days. The timestamps all indicate that all of the conversation was screenshotted as it happened. No exceptions through the entire folder.

Most of them are, but not all of them. Just went through them and found at least half a dozen that were screenshotted at a different timestamp than the texts (I didn't go through all of them so probably more can be found). Also: Most (if not all, I just didn't look that thoroughly) of the ones where the timestamp of the screenshot matches the timestamp of the text are instances where Horner allegedly texted something transgressive. To me, it looks like someone documenting behavior that they think is inappropriate.

[SoulPancake13]

So I've just gone through the[*] entire folder in regards to the WhatsApp messages, and - ignoring the content - a few things stuck out to me.

All of the WhatsApp screenshots - and i mean every single one - are taken at the very same time they were sent. There is not a single screenshot, where the timestamp of the messages are from previous days. The timestamps all indicate that all of the conversation was screenshotted as it happened. No exceptions through the entire folder.

Now, this is extremely unlikely in the first place that someone would be screenshotting this from the start, and always when it happened. Typically, once would screenshot a chat once it became obvious it was necessary, by scrolling through the chat and include previous days conservations. But it also conflicts with the narrative of the conversation, which is that it started out "okay-ish" (still inappropriate/suggestive), and then got progressively worse. Typically, you'd only first start screenshotting once you've realized that this is going a bad place, and then you'd have to scroll back through the days.

Also:

• not a single of these pictures has a date stamp, except one picture taken from the phones home screen.
• most of the photos of Horner lack context. Very few are included in the conversation, but the rest aren't. Pictures like that needs context, so it's weird the context is missing for most of those.
• every single WhatsApp picture is its own conversation. There's not a single example i can find in the folder, where it's a longer conversation that required more than one screenshot.
• All of the files lack EXIF-metadata. I was unable to confirm whether this is normal for iPhone screenshots, as I'm not an Apple-user and Google didn't give me anything.

All of that somewhat screams "Fake chat app" to me.

On the other hand, there's stuff in there i couldn't find in other places - like a video of Christian Horner singing American Pie while someone is playing the guitar. But perhaps my Google skills isn't up to the task.

Overall, I'm weirded out - and it's not by what I've seen in the folder, but the entire situation in general.

If anything that makes it more believable: Horner asks this girl to delete the logs right after so when else was she supposed to take screenshots? She's documenting inappropriate behavior as it happens, which is what you should do in these cases...

[dans79]

All of the WhatsApp screenshots - and i mean every single one - are taken at the very same time they were sent. There is not a single screenshot, where the timestamp of the messages are from previous days. The timestamps all indicate that all of the conversation was screenshotted as it happened. No exceptions through the entire folder.

from the screenshots i've been able to find images 6,10,17,35,& 72 have drastically different message times compared to the phone time!

[dans79]

All of the files lack EXIF-metadata. I was unable to confirm whether this is normal for iPhone screenshots, as I'm not an Apple-user and Google didn't give me anything.

If memory serves drive strips out stuff like that to save disk space.

[stonehenge]

One other point: Who would have access to basically all F1 journalists, team reps, FIA staff, and Liberty Media's emails? I find it hard to believe this is just a faker pranking everyone. It would be a *very* elaborate prank.

[stonehenge]

All of the files lack EXIF-metadata. I was unable to confirm whether this is normal for iPhone screenshots, as I'm not an Apple-user and Google didn't give me anything.

If memory serves drive strips out stuff like that to save disk space.

It's also so easy to remove it yourself... You don't think whoever leaked this would be smart enough to remove meta data?