Christian Horner under Investigation

[FittingMechanics]

I am fairly confident this is real. If it was fake we would have clear statements by Red Bull and Christian Horner that the screenshots are fake.

If we never get clear "The screenshots are fake" statements then this is real. Simple as that.

[FittingMechanics]

So I've just gone through the[*] entire folder in regards to the WhatsApp messages, and - ignoring the content - a few things stuck out to me.

All of the WhatsApp screenshots - and i mean every single one - are taken at the very same time they were sent. There is not a single screenshot, where the timestamp of the messages are from previous days. The timestamps all indicate that all of the conversation was screenshotted as it happened. No exceptions through the entire folder.

Now, this is extremely unlikely in the first place that someone would be screenshotting this from the start, and always when it happened. Typically, once would screenshot a chat once it became obvious it was necessary, by scrolling through the chat and include previous days conservations. But it also conflicts with the narrative of the conversation, which is that it started out "okay-ish" (still inappropriate/suggestive), and then got progressively worse. Typically, you'd only first start screenshotting once you've realized that this is going a bad place, and then you'd have to scroll back through the days.

It's hard to know, but if she was thinking that it is inappropriate and wanted to have some backup in case things escalated, she would screenshot at the time. Also Horner started asking her to delete the messages/history in case she is hacked. It is possible she would delete messages because of him but kept screenshots as backup. I wouldn't be surprised if he asked her in person as well. In another situation it is obvious Horner deleted his messages (delete for both option in Whatsapp) so if she didn't take an earlier screenshot, the message would be gone. In another situation she obviously shared the message to someone who said that is sexual harassment.

I don't think this is proof of any kind of fakery as there are multiple reasons one could be taking screenshots regularly. Also a faker that went to this type of lengths (70+ images, details about meetings/people) would probably realize his time is too close to message time.

In the end, if it is fake Horner would be loud and clear that it is fake.

[DAMNINice]

One thing that really points out that it is genuine data is, that red bull has not sent out a press release yet to say it’s fake.

They have the real data from their investigation and can say that based on the real data they can assure that it’s fake.

The reason why they have not done it is either:
- The department for communication is lazy and slow (not RB typical)
- The data is real.

[Stu]

One thing that really points out that it is genuine data is, that red bull has not sent out a press release yet to say it’s fake.

They have the real data from their investigation and can say that based on the real data they can assure that it’s fake.

The reason why they have not done it is either:
- The department for communication is lazy and slow (not RB typical)
- The data is real.

Or the third option
- well, they would say that…

[Stu]

This to me indicates that it's an experienced leaker (or experienced faker). I don't think the woman in question herself would have thought of that if she leaked it. The conversations doesn't strike me as someone who is technically adept.

Personally I wouldn't expect "her" to have done this. I'd expect this to have been done by someone with plausible deniability who wants Horner gone for one reason or another.

Maybe it is Toto, in delayed revenge for the story published a few months ago regarding secret information sharing between him & Susie in an attempt to destabilise RBR & guarantee that LH gets his eighth WDC with Mercedes (rather than Ferrari).

If challenged, he will (of course) deny it…

They’re all at it, you know, it’s a huge conspiracy to make DTS interesting for at least another two seasons; meanwhile Liberty Media rub their hands together as new revenue streams are created.

[*removes tongue from cheek*]

All of the above is possible, all of the above is plausible, however I just made it all up.

Bernie would be proud.

[mendis]

One thing that really points out that it is genuine data is, that red bull has not sent out a press release yet to say it’s fake.

They have the real data from their investigation and can say that based on the real data they can assure that it’s fake.

The reason why they have not done it is either:
- The department for communication is lazy and slow (not RB typical)
- The data is real.

No company has an obligation to satisfy attention seeking people on internet. They don't have to send out official clarifications for all kinds of unverified and unsubstantiated material posted on Internet. If anyone thinks the material is genuine, they should feel free to convince the accuser and lodge a criminal case against both Horner and Red Bull GmbH. Loads of money to be made. Internet doesn't resolve problems. It's a place for imaginative people to show their art and keep people hooked up.

[Watto]

I don’t think you read one way or the other into RBR response , again a case where I think people read into it what whey want, he said they were fake but not suing therefor it’s real defo law isn’t as simple as news is fake then it’s defo also RB. May want the story to just die move on legal action prolongs it commenting on it may well do the same,

[Ground Effect]

This would be a perfect situation for Christian to make a clear statement and say that the images circulating social media are 100% fake and threaten legal action. If I was in a position like him, that's the first thing I'd convey. He can't afford to let this continue with the impression that they could be real.

[littlebigcat]

This email leak is terrible RB and CH reputation as TP. What is seen cannot be unseen and this may also affect the popularity of F1.

This reminds me of the case involving Max Mosley and the hookers. It was shocking and now no one is talking about LH moving to Ferrari.

The email leak is not authentic. There are a lot of people online who are very good at forensically verifying online content. And they exposed this as a fabrication in a few hours.

Red Bull and CH have already stated that they will bring lawsuits to any of the major publishers if they report it as legit.

If there was anything more to this, the complainant could launch a civil case against Horner.

I have not seen these very good people proving it’s fake. Can you provide a link?

[astracrazy]

One thing that really points out that it is genuine data is, that red bull has not sent out a press release yet to say it’s fake.

They have the real data from their investigation and can say that based on the real data they can assure that it’s fake.

The reason why they have not done it is either:
- The department for communication is lazy and slow (not RB typical)
- The data is real.

But it's a no win situation. Anyone who already assumes/wants him to be guilty would just say "well he would say that". The same people if he doesn't says "must mean they are real".

This will be in the hands of lawyers who know how to better handle these situations than people on this forum.

I personally believe they are fake, or at least the screenshots being circulated are.

- Why is some of the writing in Chinese and some in English? Go and test it on your own drive and change the language. Even the files names change. It says to me this has been mocked up in photoshop and isn't a genuine screenshot of a google drive.

- I also don't think Horner would be writing text messages using lower case most of the time, miss spelling words, using U instead of you and even some lingo like UPT. I mean come on

- The pictures just look off. Either like they have been taking with an old phone or he is in sharp focus but the background completely blurry like its two pics into one. Picture File-2 it even looks like someone else hair in the bottom right corner. See for yourselfhttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHhNOAmW4AA ... name=large

[101FlyingDutchman]

One thing that really points out that it is genuine data is, that red bull has not sent out a press release yet to say it’s fake.

They have the real data from their investigation and can say that based on the real data they can assure that it’s fake.

The reason why they have not done it is either:
- The department for communication is lazy and slow (not RB typical)
- The data is real.

But it's a no win situation. Anyone who already assumes/wants him to be guilty would just say "well he would say that". The same people if he doesn't says "must mean they are real".

This will be in the hands of lawyers who know how to better handle these situations than people on this forum.

I personally believe they are fake, or at least the screenshots being circulated are.

- Why is some of the writing in Chinese and some in English? Go and test it on your own drive and change the language. Even the files names change. It says to me this has been mocked up in photoshop and isn't a genuine screenshot of a google drive.

- I also don't think Horner would be writing text messages using lower case most of the time, miss spelling words, using U instead of you and even some lingo like UPT. I mean come on

- The pictures just look off. Either all blurry or he is in sharp focus but the background completely blurry. Picture File-2 it even looks like someone else hair in the bottom right corner.

Is no way that a 50yr old bloke living on a large shooting estate - wearing tweed and a cygnet ring - is going to write messages using U instead of you. That alone is a huge red flag for me wrt the authenticity of these. Something smells very off even though I have no doubt that something happened, this smacks of character assassination

[DDopey]

If you fall in the trap of saying some specific release is fake, you will need to do it over and over again for everyone who is releasing something. Does not mean it's fake or not, just the statement says nothing. And like everything in this case, step out of your own frame of mind.

[chrstphrln]

It is at least very surprising that Red Bull did not immediately deny that these were real files.
The mere fact that the denial has not been made suggests that it will not happen either.
A complete PR disaster.
The reputational damage is enormous.

[astracrazy]

It is at least very surprising that Red Bull did not immediately deny that these were real files.
The mere fact that the denial has not been made suggests that it will not happen either.
A complete PR disaster.
The reputational damage is enormous.

And then the same people who are saying they are real because they haven't would respond by saying "they would say that so they must be real".

[chrisc90]

One thing that really points out that it is genuine data is, that red bull has not sent out a press release yet to say it’s fake.

They have the real data from their investigation and can say that based on the real data they can assure that it’s fake.

The reason why they have not done it is either:
- The department for communication is lazy and slow (not RB typical)
- The data is real.

But it's a no win situation. Anyone who already assumes/wants him to be guilty would just say "well he would say that". The same people if he doesn't says "must mean they are real".

This will be in the hands of lawyers who know how to better handle these situations than people on this forum.

I personally believe they are fake, or at least the screenshots being circulated are.

- Why is some of the writing in Chinese and some in English? Go and test it on your own drive and change the language. Even the files names change. It says to me this has been mocked up in photoshop and isn't a genuine screenshot of a google drive.

- I also don't think Horner would be writing text messages using lower case most of the time, miss spelling words, using U instead of you and even some lingo like UPT. I mean come on

- The pictures just look off. Either all blurry or he is in sharp focus but the background completely blurry. Picture File-2 it even looks like someone else hair in the bottom right corner.

Is no way that a 50yr old bloke living on a large shooting estate - wearing tweed and a cygnet ring - is going to write messages using U instead of you. That alone is a huge red flag for me wrt the authenticity of these. Something smells very off even though I have no doubt that something happened, this smacks of character assassination

Not to mention that any smart phone uses capital letters. The wording of the ‘English’ is very poor for 2 well educated people for the roles they do.