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It is at least very surprising that Red Bull did not immediately deny that these were real files.
The mere fact that the denial has not been made suggests that it will not happen either.
A complete PR disaster.
The reputational damage is enormous.
And then the same people who are saying they are real because they haven't would respond by saying "they would say that so they must be real".
No.
There is a certain difference between the conclusion that one draws from a denial that has not occurred and claiming the opposite of what has been said.
This to me indicates that it's an experienced leaker (or experienced faker). I don't think the woman in question herself would have thought of that if she leaked it. The conversations doesn't strike me as someone who is technically adept.
Personally I wouldn't expect "her" to have done this. I'd expect this to have been done by someone with plausible deniability who wants Horner gone for one reason or another.
Maybe it is Toto, in delayed revenge for the story published a few months ago regarding secret information sharing between him & Susie in an attempt to destabilise RBR & guarantee that LH gets his eighth WDC with Mercedes (rather than Ferrari).
If challenged, he will (of course) deny it…
They’re all at it, you know, it’s a huge conspiracy to make DTS interesting for at least another two seasons; meanwhile Liberty Media rub their hands together as new revenue streams are created.
[*removes tongue from cheek*]
All of the above is possible, all of the above is plausible, however I just made it all up.
Bernie would be proud.
Agree. Sound conclusion.
And the greatest winners are Red Bull and Liberty Media. Any media exposure (good and bad) brings in the money.
So both of them communicating to the minimum possible is the best approach.
But ask yourself? Would Toto be crazy enough to bribe a RB employee and pay a few bucks in the far east for some fake evidence? Naaaah......impossible....
There is a big issue if Red Bull says "these messages are fake" and then the person who made the complaint goes public.
No team (or a smart individual) will say something is fake if it can be proved that it is not.
Horner would jump on the opportunity to dismiss this if it was fake. He will be all over the papers - his wife's name included. Who wouldn't say all of this is fake?
There is a big issue if Red Bull says "these messages are fake" and then the person who made the complaint goes public.
No team (or a smart individual) will say something is fake if it can be proved that it is not.
Horner would jump on the opportunity to dismiss this if it was fake. He will be all over the papers - his wife's name included. Who wouldn't say all of this is fake?
Because if one of the pics or selfie for example is not. He will be again scrutinised
The statement written by Horner is not 100 per cent his but his lawyers. So the statement denied any wrong doing and leakes but leaves open that some might be true pieces
Too be fair, shes actually proving they work with the first one. Using filters is a form of ai
Joking a side. I don't really care for the pics, its the texts which seem fake to me. The pics could be ai generated or could not, without the originals you'd never know so its a pointless avenue either way.
More proof at least 1 of the pictures are real. Approaching 24 hours since the pictures were leaked and there's been zero denial from Horner/RBR that the images are fake/AI generated - quite strange that. However his supporters on this thread & elsewhere are adamant it's fake. Maybe they know something he doesn't.
It is at least very surprising that Red Bull did not immediately deny that these were real files.
The mere fact that the denial has not been made suggests that it will not happen either.
A complete PR disaster.
The reputational damage is enormous.
And then the same people who are saying they are real because they haven't would respond by saying "they would say that so they must be real".
No.
There is a certain difference between the conclusion that one draws from a denial that has not occurred and claiming the opposite of what has been said.
Don't be that nieve.
He has two choices, either admit they are real or prove they are fake. Just saying they are fake though won't cut it with this, which I suspect his lawyers know.
On the point that this is good publicity for DTS/Liberty, etc. it really isn't.
F1 wants a wider demographic, including more women, and DTS has been a part of this.
If this material turns out to be true, then it's very, very negative for F1 as a whole. Especially if there is a perception that an investigation has been badly handled. Arguably swept under the carpet.
The DTS crowd, Gen-Z people, etc. could look at this negatively, choose not to watch F1, and question brands associated with this behaviour. Brands do not want to be associated with inappropriate behaviour from publicly visible leaders, and will be even more uncomfortable with badly handled investigations into inappropriate behaviour.
I suspect this is why Toto and Zack are so vocal on the topic. Sure, maybe part of this is the gamesmanship of F1 teams fighting one another. Yet more likely they are unhappy about the damage to F1 as a brand *if* a prominent team boss has been inappropriate and it's been made worse by the team not dealing with the inappropriate behaviour. This impacts all teams with sponsors, who will ask whether the same situations are going on in other teams and this is a wider problem in F1.
Again, assuming this is real, a sponsor of RBR has to question what other issues have been dealt with poorly within the team? Is there a pattern of behaviour from senior RBR people, or is this kind of behaviour tolerated within the team? Is there about to be others coming forwards from within the team? Do they, the sponsor, want to exit quickly rather than risk more coming out which damages their brand because they've not reacted quickly enough?
Assuming this is real, the damage to F1 is an issue, and the risk that RBR sponsors will exit seems high.
If this is not real, then RBR and Horner need to quash it very quickly because of the damage it's causing to both the team and F1.
Anyone who thinks this publicity is good for F1, or that another team or team boss would want to push an agenda here is, I think, very much mistaken.
Not just Horner but the whole of Red Bull GmbH is in trouble…
Why?
Even if...most I saw now is more two sided...I mean...Gerry will not like this, but I see rather two grown ups having a bit too much fun. So even if everything is true, I can see a good reason that in work ethics this is still fine. Not 100% appropriate, but also not fire stuff.
I rather think Horny and maybe also the women in the game need to sort out their marriages...
If everything is proven real, which I doubt given the stupidity in some, then this is just the confirmation for Horner being a wanker. I guess this is also no news for you, or is it? So does this change anything?
Not just Horner but the whole of Red Bull GmbH is in trouble…
Why?
Even if...most I saw now is more two sided...I mean...Gerry will not like this, but I see rather two grown ups having a bit too much fun. So even if everything is true, I can see a good reason that in work ethics this is still fine. Not 100% appropriate, but also not fire stuff.
I rather think Horny and maybe also the women in the game need to sort out their marriages...
If everything is proven real, which I doubt given the stupidity in some, then this is just the confirmation for Horner being a wanker. I guess this is also no news for you, or is it? So does this change anything?
I share your view, but there is a large demographic who will shout sodom and gomorrah, and see him as the reincarnation of the devil, even if the exchange turns out to be fully mutual. So it still damages the F1 and Red Bull brands.
And then the same people who are saying they are real because they haven't would respond by saying "they would say that so they must be real".
No.
There is a certain difference between the conclusion that one draws from a denial that has not occurred and claiming the opposite of what has been said.
Don't be that nieve.
He has two choices, either admit they are real or prove they are fake. Just saying they are fake though won't cut it with this, which I suspect his lawyers know.
I'm sorry, what? Naive?
Quite the opposite.
Of course, FIRST, it is enough to deny its authenticity. You don't need any proof. FIRST!
In what world should someone have to prove dubious accusations are false?
Just deny it and you're done.
If the accusations are false, the accuser must provide evidence of their authenticity.
This is the same in court as it is in public perception. And that's what it's all about here, public perception.
If he doesn't have any evidence, everything will come to nothing.
But there is no denial.
And in the public perception this seems as if they don't want to deny it because they don't want to tell the untruth.
There are reviews of the whole folder contents online, not just the exerts that have been posted here, if it is proved to be fake then someone has put a lot of effort into this...
The pictures people are flagging as fakes just look like middle aged guy selfies using filters. The texts look like middle aged guy trying to be down with the kids. He’s texting a much younger woman, she’s probably texted in that way so he’s reciprocating.
The content may look consensual (some of it is sexual, some of it can certainly be viewed as harassment and is pretty grim) but he’s her boss/authority figure and has her career to use as leverage. Consensual or not, this is not OK and it surprises me that anyone can defend him on this.
