Christian Horner under Investigation

[SoulPancake13]

It still doesn’t change the fact that this man, good or bad has been publicly humiliated an a global scale now. Unless he committed some heinous crime, it’s a terrible thing to see. I just don’t understand from a PR perspective how he is still in position.

Wouldn't have happened this way if Red Bull was just more transparent with the investigation, what it concerned, etc. Ultimately, if these are fake, then I seriously doubt any harm is done to the man. If these are real, then he deserves no one's sympathies.

[mendis]

Well, since I have the drive and seen it, got to see Horner’s chest and file 76, I would say this is the craziest start of the season I have ever had for over 20 years of fandom.

Apparently more leaks confirmed at 18:00 pm local time. This is someone destroying this man forever, whether it’s true or false, and it’s sad to see.

I’m sorry but he deserves no sympathy, to be sending stuff like that to a junior employee when you are the boss is an incredible abuse of power and position. If you’re not able to keep it clean you shouldn’t have a position or responsibility. The power dynamic is so out of whack between the two parties, he should’ve been dismissed instantly, as any exec should be from any corporate for this kind of behaviour. The man’s clearly a snake

The tendency to believe or wanting to believe in something that is a lie or based on unsubstantiated information, might be influenced by various psychological factors. In psychiatry, this phenomenon can be explored through different frameworks, such as cognitive biases/dissonance, emotional needs and social influences.

[codetower]

This seems to me like someone just trying to get Horner out, by any means. They assumed the initial complaint would do it and when that failed, they resorted to "leaking" information. I wouldn't doubt that this will continue and continue until he is either asked to step down, or does so himself.

Regarding the leaks... I'm sure that during the investigation all this was already known, I doubt this is new to them. Now it's just "public" when they hoped it wouldn't be. This is obviously causing more distractions to the team and to F1. Not good.

Now, regarding Horner, I couldn't care less about him or RB, and admittedly I haven't seen all the leaks, only the few screenshots posted here. But it seems to me that it's being made out bigger than it is. Again, I haven't followed that closely. Honest questions because I don't know the answers: Did they sleep together? Did he force himself on her? Did she tell him to stop and he kept going? Did she flirt back at all? From the little I've seen, it just looks like some inappropriate behaviour between two adults with him, being a man pursuing a female, had a difficult time taking hints. Is this something that will destroy a marriage? Definitely. Can it destroy a family? Absolutely. Does it destroy a reputation, affect your work? Is it cause for everyone including his wife and children to be dragged through the media like this? Meh. U.S. presidents have been caught doing worse.

[TimW]

I share your view, but there is a large demographic who will shout sodom and gomorrah, and see him as the reincarnation of the devil, even if the exchange turns out to be fully mutual. So it still damages the F1 and Red Bull brands.

Operating on the assumption the messages are real:

There are repeated requests for sexual pictures, video calls etc from CH and repeated rebuttals from the woman involved. There are also repeated requests from CH to delete her Whatsapp history.

It may have started as a bit of mutual fun but it is clear from the messages that it did not end up being so for one party.

If that is true (I did not see the messages other than some here), it is hard to see how RB could have cleared him indeed.

[Mogster]

This seems to me like someone just trying to get Horner out, by any means. They assumed the initial complaint would do it and when that failed, they resorted to "leaking" information. I wouldn't doubt that this will continue and continue until he is either asked to step down, or does so himself.

Regarding the leaks... I'm sure that during the investigation all this was already known, I doubt this is new to them. Now it's just "public" when they hoped it wouldn't be. This is obviously causing more distractions to the team and to F1. Not good.

Now, regarding Horner, I couldn't care less about him or RB, and admittedly I haven't seen all the leaks, only the few screenshots posted here. But it seems to me that it's being made out bigger than it is. Again, I haven't followed that closely. Honest questions because I don't know the answers: Did they sleep together? Did he force himself on her? Did she tell him to stop and he kept going? Did she flirt back at all? From the little I've seen, it just looks like some inappropriate behaviour between two adults with him, being a man pursuing a female, had a difficult time taking hints. Is this something that will destroy a marriage? Definitely. Can it destroy a family? Absolutely. Does it destroy a reputation, affect your work? Is it cause for everyone including his wife and children to be dragged through the media like this? Meh. U.S. presidents have been caught doing worse.

How many times, it’s 2024. Relationships with subordinates can involve abuse of power. That’s why they are prohibited in many workplaces now. They are prohibited exactly to prevent the situation Horner has created for RBR, Red Bull and Ford now.

[dans79]

I wouldn't doubt that this will continue and continue until he is either asked to step down, or does so himself.

if Michael Schmidt is to be believed we will get more leaked information very soon!
viewtopic.php?p=1193166#p1193166

[f1isgood]

This seems to me like someone just trying to get Horner out, by any means. They assumed the initial complaint would do it and when that failed, they resorted to "leaking" information. I wouldn't doubt that this will continue and continue until he is either asked to step down, or does so himself.

Regarding the leaks... I'm sure that during the investigation all this was already known, I doubt this is new to them. Now it's just "public" when they hoped it wouldn't be. This is obviously causing more distractions to the team and to F1. Not good.

Now, regarding Horner, I couldn't care less about him or RB, and admittedly I haven't seen all the leaks, only the few screenshots posted here. But it seems to me that it's being made out bigger than it is. Again, I haven't followed that closely. Honest questions because I don't know the answers: Did they sleep together? Did he force himself on her? Did she tell him to stop and he kept going? Did she flirt back at all? From the little I've seen, it just looks like some inappropriate behaviour between two adults with him, being a man pursuing a female, had a difficult time taking hints. Is this something that will destroy a marriage? Definitely. Can it destroy a family? Absolutely. Does it destroy a reputation, affect your work? Is it cause for everyone including his wife and children to be dragged through the media like this? Meh. U.S. presidents have been caught doing worse.

If the leaks are true:

Did they sleep together? Unclear. There are definitely solid indications of a once normal affair gone wrong.
Did he force himself on her? He was continuously asking for video calls and images.
Did she tell him to stop and he kept going? In some messages yes and others no.
Did she flirt back at all? Yes.

Again these are my opinions.

The bigger issue with the current leak is it is designed in a way to attack Horner, not present to us the entire picture. It is entirely possible there are more documents that are part of the investigation in addition to this (I am assuming this was already present).

I think someone wants Horner not just out of F1, but wants to end his entire career forever. And this someone is most likely within F1 given the contacts and the evidence they seem to possess.

[dans79]

How many times, it’s 2024. Relationships with subordinates can involve abuse of power. That’s why they are prohibited in many workplaces now. They are prohibited exactly to prevent the situation Horner has created for RBR, Red Bull and Ford now.

In a company I worked for from 2004 till 2008, a department director had dated and then married a base level employee under his chain of command. when higher ups found out, the couple was given 30 days for one of them to quit or find a job in a different branch of the company. Relationships of any type (including parents, children etc) that were within the same chain of command, were against company policy!

[Mogster]

How many times, it’s 2024. Relationships with subordinates can involve abuse of power. That’s why they are prohibited in many workplaces now. They are prohibited exactly to prevent the situation Horner has created for RBR, Red Bull and Ford now.

In a company I worked for from 2004 till 2008, a department director had dated and then married a base level employee under his chain of command. when higher ups found out, the couple was given 30 days for one of them to quit or find a job in a different branch of the company. Relationships of any type (including parents, children etc) that were within the same chain of command, were against company policy!

Yes. At the very least you are not allowed to line mange someone you are in a relationship with.

Horner has brought this all on himself, although from a guy that dumps his pregnant wife for a new girlfriend maybe we should not be too surprised.

[Cold Fussion]

What's clear is the leaker wants Horner gone and has taken the thermo-nuclear approach of having him trialed in the court of public opinion. What is important to me is that Red Bull's statement on the matter only stated the "grievance has been dismissed" and made no statement on whether he was guilty or cleared of any impropriety. The complaint was investigated by an independent barrister, and presumably they wouldn't be participating in a 'cover-up' so we should assume that whatever is in that report is close to what could reasonably be established as the truth. Now if the report is very unfavorable to Horner, but he was being protected by some element of Red Bull corporate, you would expect the leaker would have leaked the report if they had access to it. The fact the report isn't part of the leak strongly suggests (to me at least) that they either do not have access to it or the full picture is not as bad as the leak would make it seem. Either way it puts a lot of pressure on Red Bull to be more transparent with actual results of the investigation, I don't think simply saying "the grievance has been dismissed" is going to cut it anymore.

[Watto]

What's clear is the leaker wants Horner gone and has taken the thermo-nuclear approach of having him trialed in the court of public opinion. What is important to me is that Red Bull's statement on the matter only stated the "grievance has been dismissed" and made no statement on whether he was guilty or cleared of any impropriety. The complaint was investigated by an independent barrister, and presumably they wouldn't be participating in a 'cover-up' so we should assume that whatever is in that report is close to what could reasonably be established as the truth. Now if the report is very unfavorable to Horner, but he was being protected by some element of Red Bull corporate, you would expect the leaker would have leaked the report if they had access to it. The fact the report isn't part of the leak strongly suggests (to me at least) that they either do not have access to it or the full picture is not as bad as the leak would make it seem. Either way it puts a lot of pressure on Red Bull to be more transparent with actual results of the investigation, I don't think simply saying "the grievance has been dismissed" is going to cut it anymore.

I guess the rumours of the Austrian side of Ref Bull Gmrb wanting Horner gone the Thai owner with 51% of the company protecting him. With the barrier maybe their report saints no workplace laws were but there were some maybe ethical concerns that may now have been broken

[bonjon1979]

All this talk of it not being real has to stop now. Even uk press is printing messages as factually coming from Horner, and then quoting them. they would never in a million years do so if they had any doubts. He did it, they tried to cover it up, now it’s out and his position is untenable. How can they talk about welcoming more women into the paddock when this behaviour is dismissed as completely fine. They look more and more ridiculous with every passing hour, as do the apologists.

[Mogster]

The complaint was investigated by an independent barrister, and presumably they wouldn't be participating in a 'cover-up' so we should assume that whatever is in that report is close to what could reasonably be established as the truth.

You have a very high opinion of the legal profession

What I do think is that this could be as bad as it gets for Horner professionally. Now the evidence is out there, as long as it is all out now. Of course if Ford pull out then that would pile more pressure on, but if he can tough this out from here then…

[Cold Fussion]

How can they talk about welcoming more women into the paddock when this behaviour is dismissed as completely fine. They look more and more ridiculous with every passing hour, as do the apologists.

The next race is in Saudi Arabia, we're long past the days of F1 having any moral capital (if it could even be argued that F1 ever had any at any point of it's history.

You have a very high opinion of the legal profession

What I do think is that this could be as bad as it gets for Horner professionally. Now the evidence is out there, as long as it is all out now. Of course if Ford pull out then that would pile more pressure on, but if he can tough this out from here then…

I wouldn't say that I do, but I don't feel there is a lot to gain from their side in participating in an active cover-up. That may be a naive view, but If i'm not to trust that they did their job properly, then what's to stop me from just dismissing things I don't like because It makes me uncomfortable. What Red Bull do with that report though, anything goes. I think at the very least it must likely clear Horner of any wrong doings with respect to the law, or else he'd already be gone.

I don't agree that we've also seen all the evidence. We have an undisclosed amount of evidence from one party, I don't think we can make any definitive statements on the totality of all the evidence from what has been released. What we can say from what has been released is it looks very bad for Horner, which makes the dismissal of the grievance all the more curious. I look forward to the report eventually being released one way or another.

[bonjon1979]

I mean…fair point! It’s more the corporate governance I find astounding. That they wouldn’t suspend him is incredible and then these leaks….its a lot