Christian Horner under Investigation

[PapayaFan481]

Put this another way, if this is true, and it certainly looks that way, this is worse than what Briatore did and he was forced out of the sport. This is worse than what Mosley did and he was crucified by many fans.

Point is, you don't even seem to understand see what you do here.
@Dialtone .. the last couple of pages kinda prove my point I'd say. But I'm sure you'll remain in disagreement, which is fine ..

This high-horsemanship is worrying

Sorry, I don't even understand what point I'm not getting??

If, and in mind it is still an if, even though I do think it's looking likely, these are real, then if Horner doesn't step down or get fired then there is something very rotten in Red Bull.

[PapayaFan481]

Put this another way, if this is true, and it certainly looks that way, this is worse than what Briatore did and he was forced out of the sport. This is worse than what Mosley did and he was crucified by many fans.

Point is, you don't even seem to understand see what you do here.
@Dialtone .. the last couple of pages kinda prove my point I'd say. But I'm sure you'll remain in disagreement, which is fine ..

This high-horsemanship is worrying

No they don’t. Half the people in this forum are defending him. People on reddit and certain journalists were calling the documents fake based on no expert analysis. We’re very very far from a critical mass of people calling for his head and then there’s the little fact of him not having stepped down yet so… this has nothing to do with cancel culture, again if the allegations were true, an actual crime would be committed, this isn’t the expression of a controversial opinion.

What crime?

It is possible to overstep a professional boundary and lose your job without committing a crime.

If a Doctor sleeps with a patient, they would lose their licence, but they haven't broken any criminal laws.

[west52keep64]

So I've just gone through the[*] entire folder in regards to the WhatsApp messages, and - ignoring the content - a few things stuck out to me.

All of the WhatsApp screenshots - and i mean every single one - are taken at the very same time they were sent. There is not a single screenshot, where the timestamp of the messages are from previous days. The timestamps all indicate that all of the conversation was screenshotted as it happened. No exceptions through the entire folder.

Now, this is extremely unlikely in the first place that someone would be screenshotting this from the start, and always when it happened. Typically, once would screenshot a chat once it became obvious it was necessary, by scrolling through the chat and include previous days conservations. But it also conflicts with the narrative of the conversation, which is that it started out "okay-ish" (still inappropriate/suggestive), and then got progressively worse. Typically, you'd only first start screenshotting once you've realized that this is going a bad place, and then you'd have to scroll back through the days.

Perhaps they felt it was neccecary by that point? We aren't seeing the whole story here, just the point from which these messages were captured. Also, the other party can delete messages so going back later might be too late. This looks to me like they started capturing the evidence when they felt it would be needed.

Don't get me wrong, well spotted, but I don't think this is the slam dunk you hope it is.

[TFSA]

Perhaps they felt it was neccecary by that point? We aren't see the whole story here, just the point from which these messages were captured. Also, the other party can delete messages so going back later might be too late. This looks to me like they started capturing the evidence when they felt it would be needed.

Don't get me wrong, well spotted, but I don't think this is the slam dunk you hope it is.

I never said it was a slam dunk. I said it was suspicious.

But someone cleared up the reason a few posts later. Apparently WhatsApp only show dates etc. for a second and then hides it.

With that said, it's still interesting to me that every screenshot is a unique point in the conversation. There were no points amongst all of the messages, where more than one screenshot was needed to cover a longer stretch of conversation.

Again, not about slam dunks. Just observations. And it's not just in Horners defense. I've also observed that some of the material seems rather unique. There's a video of Horner singing, which definitely looks private. Probably not something that's easy to come by for someone who doesn't know Horner. This is just me satisfying my need to play detective, and hopefully to the benefit of the discussion

[west52keep64]

Perhaps they felt it was neccecary by that point? We aren't see the whole story here, just the point from which these messages were captured. Also, the other party can delete messages so going back later might be too late. This looks to me like they started capturing the evidence when they felt it would be needed.

Don't get me wrong, well spotted, but I don't think this is the slam dunk you hope it is.

I never said it was a slam dunk. I said it was suspicious.

But someone cleared up the reason a few posts later. Apparently WhatsApp only show dates etc. for a second and then hides it.

With that said, it's still interesting to me that every screenshot is a unique point in the conversation. There were no points amongst all of the messages, where more than one screenshot was needed to cover a longer stretch of conversation.

Again, not about slam dunks. Just observations. And it's not just in Horners defense. I've also observed that some of the material seems rather unique. There's a video of Horner singing, which definitely looks private. Probably not something that's easy to come by for someone who doesn't know Horner. This is just me satisfying my need to play detective, and hopefully to the benefit of the discussion

That's not actually true, have you only seen the thumbnails?

[Mogster]

We also don’t know if the contents of the folder comprise the only evidence. There could be first person, phone, FaceTime stuff of which there’s no record.

I do wonder if the screen shotting started when they began to realise this would likely impact their career. Which would make sense.

[AnthonyG]

This is worse than what Mosley did and he was crucified by many fans.

Unless I remember wrongly, Mosley did nothing wrong.

[Wouter]

One of the 79 files in Google drive is a conversation between Horner and the lady.
It says:
Horner: "Can I make a confession?"
"If you want."
" When we went to Dubai last year on the plane."
"Yep."
"And you got me out ..........


Last year?? So this were apps from January or February??
I thought she contacted RB GmbH in Austria already in December last year and then they started an investigation?!
She also stayed home and didn't work from mid December last year. She had called in sick.

When this file is not fake something is wrong. Was Horner talking about Dubai in 2022 (last year)? Because she called in sick Dec 2023.
I don't assume they texted eachother in a romantic way after she complaint to the big boss in Austria in Dec 2023.

[Redragon]

Put this another way, if this is true, and it certainly looks that way, this is worse than what Briatore did and he was forced out of the sport. This is worse than what Mosley did and he was crucified by many fans.

Point is, you don't even seem to understand see what you do here.
@Dialtone .. the last couple of pages kinda prove my point I'd say. But I'm sure you'll remain in disagreement, which is fine ..

This high-horsemanship is worrying

Mosley was dress as a Nazi with a prostitute . Also his surname didn’t help and reiterate the family far right links. Briarore planned a crash to cheat on this sport.

Horner for what have been shown was flirting with the employee until she stop the engagement and wasnt happy afterwards about it. That’s not same level as Mosley and Briatore.

[west52keep64]

One of the 79 files in Google drive is a conversation between Horner and the lady.
It says:
Horner: "Can I make a confession?"
"If you want."
" When we went to Dubai last year on the plane."
"Yep."
"And you got me out ..........


Last year?? So this were apps from January or February??
I thought she contacted RB GmbH in Austria already in December last year and then they started an investigation?!
She also stayed home and didn't work from mid December last year. She had called in sick.

When this file is not fake something is wrong. Was Horner talking about Dubai in 2022 (last year)? Because she called in sick Dec 2023.
I don't assume they texted eachother in a romantic way after she complaint to the big boss in Austria in Dec 2023.

Very likely yes, why doesn't that work from a timeline perspective? Also, this isn't all just travel for races, there's clearly plenty of other travel involved.

[TFSA]

That's not actually true, have you only seen the thumbnails?

Nope, I've seen the folder. And you're right. I missed the last few files, which are linked conversations (might be more, but i can't be bothered to go through the folder again).

Guess I'll need to up my detective game. Thanks for the correction.

[Tommy Cookers]

This is worse than what Mosley did and he was crucified by many fans.

Unless I remember wrongly, Mosley did nothing wrong.

unless I remember wrongly ....
Mosley, risking financial ruin, sued the illegally-lying-&-spying UK press - and won (his case and enabling others cases)
in effect creating a UK privacy law where none had existed

btw as motor sport fans seemingly have greater entitlement to justice than do ordinary citizens ...
they might in mitigation recognise driver Mosley's near-victory in the UK Clubman's championship (his first year)
and his beating Graham Hill in a European F2 championship race the following year

[Seanspeed]

No they don’t. Half the people in this forum are defending him. People on reddit and certain journalists were calling the documents fake based on no expert analysis. We’re very very far from a critical mass of people calling for his head and then there’s the little fact of him not having stepped down yet so… this has nothing to do with cancel culture, again if the allegations were true, an actual crime would be committed, this isn’t the expression of a controversial opinion.

Seriously. F1 is a 'boys club' sport and it's wild to pretend that Horner is some victim of some giant mob when there's been an extraordinary amount of people trying their best to downplay and dismiss the claims from the beginning, even when we knew very little. And to be clear, those calling for heads to roll without more evidence were not being rational either, but it's obvious there's an incredible amount of people trying to exaggerate these things in order to push a certain agenda.

[langedweil]

No they don’t. Half the people in this forum are defending him. People on reddit and certain journalists were calling the documents fake based on no expert analysis. We’re very very far from a critical mass of people calling for his head and then there’s the little fact of him not having stepped down yet so… this has nothing to do with cancel culture, again if the allegations were true, an actual crime would be committed, this isn’t the expression of a controversial opinion.

Seriously. F1 is a 'boys club' sport and it's wild to pretend that Horner is some victim of some giant mob when there's been an extraordinary amount of people trying their best to downplay and dismiss the claims from the beginning, even when we knew very little. And to be clear, those calling for heads to roll without more evidence were not being rational either, but it's obvious there's an incredible amount of people trying to exaggerate these things in order to push a certain agenda.

That's kinda what I meant ..

[f1jcw]

It is interesting that Ford have yet to say anything, they made a fuss about transparency.