Hypercars

[Just_a_fan]

Yamaha ox99-11.

Video of the engine being started and revved:


I remember the OX99 being unveiled. Always thought it a slightly odd thing to look at but also rather interesting. Would love to know how effective the aero was - it had an exhaust blown diffuser of sorts ((although it's very steep so I wonder how much use it would have been) and the front wing over the nose reminds one of the XJR-14 although as it has bodywork below it that appears to follow the shape of the wing, I'd be surprised if it was very effective.

Cheesy music doesn't last too long in this video:

[ValeVida46]

Yamaha ox99-11.

I remember the OX99 being unveiled. Always thought it a slightly odd thing to look at but also rather interesting. Would love to know how effective the aero was - it had an exhaust blown diffuser of sorts ((although it's very steep so I wonder how much use it would have been) and the front wing over the nose reminds one of the XJR-14 although as it has bodywork below it that appears to follow the shape of the wing, I'd be surprised if it was very effective.

Definitely reminiscent of the F1 from the rear

I reckon it could've become a 3 seater in the same vein as the F1. Quick read suggests Yamaha wanted a passenger seat beside the driver... Shame it didn't make it to the numbers they planned.

[gruntguru]

Wasted far too much of my life waiting for the driver to give it the beans.

[vorticism]

General thread for super/mega/hypercars.

The next Bugatti will be a hybrid with a combustion engine, in an arrangement which 'no one is expecting.'

What kind of powertrain will the Bugatti you develop from scratch have?

It will be heavily electrified, but we'll have a very attractive combustion engine. When people see the next-generation Bugatti, I think they will be surprised that I was pushing for something like that because people associate me with electric cars. But I have always been a performance guy and a car freak. Considering the brand and the customers and the technology available, I think that we are developing the best possible solution for Bugatti, which is not an electric car today. It will be one day, but not today.

What will it have? Series hybrid? Parallel hybrid? Something else? Straight-8 is the classic Bugatti engine arrangement. Rimac brings the 'heavily electrified' component. My guess? Series hybrid with direct drive (single speed) motors per axle. Essentially the Rimac Nevera drivetrain with an ICE and generator replacing the big battery. Gear ratios will be simulated in software.

https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/ ... -within-vw

Only off by 100% (bold text)

To clarify this post: it seems they are working on two Bugattis hence the statements above. One project they inherited from Volkswagen and another vehicle developed mostly/fully by Rimac. Which helps explain the V16 engine that was revealed yesterday. Apparently VAG-Bugatti had already spent two years of development work on the engine. So there will be an unclear amount of electrification on this vehicle. Mate claims a "1 m crankshaft."




I'll make a rough guess of 80 mm bore, 110 mm spacing, for a 900+ mm crankshaft, ~5 L displacement. In the vid it looks to be quad turbo, so a reference to the Chiron, Veyron, EB110, and classic straight eight Bugattis with cylinder and turbo counts.

Edit- I guess that's a small hand and large pistons in that picture. 8 litres!

[Greg Locock]

TVs will be fun. One ultra long crank I worked on went to a central PTO with an isolator splitting it into two cranks to get around that. I figure 5 years development would have sorted that engine out!

[Holm86]

General thread for super/mega/hypercars.

The next Bugatti will be a hybrid with a combustion engine, in an arrangement which 'no one is expecting.'

What kind of powertrain will the Bugatti you develop from scratch have?

It will be heavily electrified, but we'll have a very attractive combustion engine. When people see the next-generation Bugatti, I think they will be surprised that I was pushing for something like that because people associate me with electric cars. But I have always been a performance guy and a car freak. Considering the brand and the customers and the technology available, I think that we are developing the best possible solution for Bugatti, which is not an electric car today. It will be one day, but not today.

What will it have? Series hybrid? Parallel hybrid? Something else? Straight-8 is the classic Bugatti engine arrangement. Rimac brings the 'heavily electrified' component. My guess? Series hybrid with direct drive (single speed) motors per axle. Essentially the Rimac Nevera drivetrain with an ICE and generator replacing the big battery. Gear ratios will be simulated in software.

https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/ ... -within-vw

Only off by 100% (bold text)

To clarify this post: it seems they are working on two Bugattis hence the statements above. One project they inherited from Volkswagen and another vehicle developed mostly/fully by Rimac. Which helps explain the V16 engine that was revealed yesterday. Apparently VAG-Bugatti had already spent two years of development work on the engine. So there will be an unclear amount of electrification on this vehicle. Mate claims a "1 m crankshaft."

https://thumbsnap.com/sc/8gvvZhp8.jpg
https://thumbsnap.com/sc/sCdFwZ1Y.jpg

I'll make a rough guess of 80 mm bore, 110 mm spacing, for a 900+ mm crankshaft, ~5 L displacement. In the vid it looks to be quad turbo, so a reference to the Chiron, Veyron, EB110, and classic straight eight Bugattis with cylinder and turbo counts.

It sounds pretty good

[gruntguru]

Low-revving turbo motor. It will never sound as good as the Cosworth V12 in the GMA T.50.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FwkZFJLtS0

Agree with Greg on the TV problem. PTO is at the end of the crank. This engine will never be able to rev like the T.50. Won' even be able to match the firing frequency I bet. (Would need 9,000 rpm to do that.)

[vorticism]

Given the length of the engine they may attempt to take power off of both ends; Ferrari do this in a couple different applications although for different reasons. An MGU on the snout might be useful as a damper. Yea/nay? Bugatti engines were never known for being high revving unless I'm mistaken. The three modern models were TC'd, older models often straight eights as mentioned--those were never particularly high revving. I-8s didn't see sizable production outside of the 1930s, with some continued production through the 1940s in niche luxury vehicles iirc, so it's novel to see it brought back. The appeal was in power delivery: 4 power strokes / rev -- in this application eight, same as Veryron etc. Smooth operation and higher power at low rpm. GT class vehicle use.

This model might be more on the GT side and could even be front-mid layout just like a classic Bugatti.

[Moctecus]

AMuS article on the car

Key information:

• 8.3L 90° NA V16 developed together with Cosworth
• short-stroke
• 9000rpm
• 1000PS
• bank length: ~1m
• engine + 8spd DCT length: ~2m
• 3 electric permanent magnet synchronous motors with 250kW (340PS) each
• 1 in the gearbox, 2 in the front
• system power: 1800PS
• oil-cooled 24.8kWh battery in the central tunnel
• 60km electric range
• twice as powerful diffuser eliminates the need to deploy the rear wing even at high speed
• target weight: <2t
• 0-100kph: <2sec
• 0-200kph: <5sec
• 0-300kph: <10sec
• 0-400kph: <25sec
• top speed: electronically limited to 445kph
• presentation: 2nd half of 2024
• deliveries: from 2026 for 250 cars for €3.6m+

[vorticism]

+1 Can't upvote your post, must be locked. 519 cc/piston, comparable to Valkyrie's 542 cc/piston V12 which revs beyond 11k. Both producing around 1k NA hp.

Cosworth have been busy the past few years. Supplying engines for Aston Martin, GMA, now Bugatti. I wonder how it all tied in with where VAG had left off.

"...battery in the tunnel..." implies MR layout, might also imply no mechanical front axle link and no mid mounted transmission.

[gruntguru]

AMuS article on the car

Key information:

• 8.3L 90° NA V16 developed together with Cosworth
• short-stroke
• 9000rpm
• 1000PS
• bank length: ~1m
• engine + 8spd DCT length: ~2m
• 3 electric permanent magnet synchronous motors with 250kW (340PS) each
• 1 in the gearbox, 2 in the front
• system power: 1800PS
• oil-cooled 24.8kWh battery in the central tunnel
• 60km electric range
• twice as powerful diffuser eliminates the need to deploy the rear wing even at high speed
• target weight: <2t
• 0-100kph: <2sec
• 0-200kph: <5sec
• 0-300kph: <10sec
• 0-400kph: <25sec
• top speed: electronically limited to 445kph
• presentation: 2nd half of 2024
• deliveries: from 2026 for 250 cars for €3.6m+

Thanks for posting this Moctecus.
Firing frequency almost identical to the GMA V12.
One has to ask why the 16 cyl layout? Imagine the GMA V12 engine turbocharged. 1000 hp without trying.

[Moctecus]

"...battery in the tunnel..." implies MR layout, might also imply no mechanical front axle link and no mid mounted transmission.

Correct. AMuS say the front-axle is electric-only and the gearbox is mounted behind the engine.
They must be saving a lot of weight on the engine, transmission, and cooling side to entertain a target weight of <2t despite adding 24.8kWh worth of reasonably high power-density batteries and 3 electric motors.

One has to ask why the 16 cyl layout? Imagine the GMA V12 engine turbocharged. 1000 hp without trying.

"If comparable, it is no longer a Bugatti" — Ettore Bugatti
That motto is printed in big bold letters on their website and in their marketing materials.
They could easily get 1000hp and more from a turbocharged V8 or V12, that would be the sensible option. But it would also be joining in with what everyone else is doing or has done before.
They could also go full EV, for example with an evolved Nevera powertrain.
But an 8.3L high-revving, naturally-aspirated V16 is truly special and unique.
It's exactly the kind of USP you need for a car starting at €3.6m. Power figures alone don't mean much any more with family saloons exceeding 1000hp.
As for the technical perspective, Bugatti obviously wanted to abandon quad-turbos for a hybridized high-revving NA engine. Getting 1000hp out of an NA engine in a manner befitting a 2t luxury sports car requires a large displacement. Splitting 8.3L across 16 cylinders results in the standard roughly 500cc cylinder size. The stroke can also be reasonably short for the 9000rpm redline without enormous bore sizes to achieve the displacement. So there are at least some benefits to using a V16 over a V12 and not just disadvantages (like the enormous overall length, potential torsional vibration issues with the 1m crankshaft, etc).

[vorticism]

Re: that cylinder size, it struck me that this engine is akin to four Honda S2000 engines tied to a common crankshaft. 500 cc piston, 120 hp/l, 9k RPM redline. So, nothing too crazy or unusual EXCEPT for the crankshaft, which is where the boffins come in. Okay, and some very long camshafts as well and they seem to be end driven as well based on photos of the block. What would you rather design? A 1 m crankshaft? Or a 1 m camshaft?

Firing frequency almost identical to the GMA V12.
One has to ask why the 16 cyl layout? Imagine the GMA V12 engine turbocharged. 1000 hp without trying.

But then you lose some of the redline and some of the sound. The rest is aesthetic choices. Classic Bugatti is long engines--straight eights, and here you get two.

Correct. AMuS say the front-axle is electric-only and the gearbox is mounted behind the engine.
They must be saving a lot of weight on the engine, transmission, and cooling side to entertain a target weight of <2t despite adding 24.8kWh worth of reasonably high power-density batteries and 3 electric motors.

This NA V16 should be much lighter than the QT W16. Valkyrie V12 is 206 kg, so maybe 280 for this. 400 kg is listed for the W16.

[gruntguru]

Hmm, I have mistakenly assumed forced induction all along (since Vorticism mentioned quad turbo.) A lot of my comments should be ignored.

[vorticism]

You're not wrong in anything you said. I'd have expected turbocharging given the past 30 years of the brand employed it. "...in the vid it looks like..." was my caveat emptor though. In the vid there are large devices hanging symmetrically off either side of the engine with scroll geometry visible. These must be oil pumps, interesting in its own right maybe. The block photos suggest such an arrangement. The intake honestly looks more like a pressurized manifold the way it's constructed.