2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[bagajohny]

To me, it's absolutely not normal.

You have Sainz that did a very good job in key overtakes and how he put pressure on Perez.
Then you have Leclerc who managed a very serious issue extremely well, being only 0.3s on avg slower than his quick teammate.

Instead of praising both for their races, what the commentators said? "Leclerc is stupid"

Agreed. It was a good team performance except for the part where they undercut Sainz with Leclerc. It was really unnecessary when they knew Leclerc had the issue and it affected his pace. It was done in bad faith imo.

[Vinlarr89]

[quote=Xyz22 post_id=<a href="tel:1194567">1194567</a> time=<a href="tel:1709410956">1709410956</a> user_id=44359]
To me, it's absolutely not normal.

You have Sainz that did a very good job in key overtakes and how he put pressure on Perez.
Then you have Leclerc who managed a very serious issue extremely well, being only 0.3s on avg slower than his quick teammate.

Instead of praising both for their races, what the commentators said? "Leclerc is stupid"

Agreed. It was a good team performance except for the part where they undercut Sainz with Leclerc. It was really unnecessary when they knew Leclerc had the issue and it affected his pace. It was done in bad faith imo.
[/quote]


I don’t think they were actively trying to sabotage Carlos. It was more about trying to ensure Charles finished as high as possible for overall team positions. Getting Charles into new tyres first was a priority given how many times he had locked up at that point.

[wowgr8]

Regarding drivers I will have some hate but… I think they should have kept SAI and LEC

Of course you cannot lose opportunity to have a seven time champion but in terms of pressure and team peace I’m not convinced.

Agreed 100%. Sainz has been done dirty and I feel sorry for him.

[Watto]

Regarding drivers I will have some hate but… I think they should have kept SAI and LEC

Of course you cannot lose opportunity to have a seven time champion but in terms of pressure and team peace I’m not convinced.

Agreed 100%. Sainz has been done dirty and I feel sorry for him.

When Sainz at times outperformed Charles I agree I think Charles is the better driver overall

I think Sainz was better though at speaking up if he didn’t think a team order was right and at times got his way and mostly would say he was in the right where I feel Charles just had a habit of trusting the team calls

[bagajohny]

[quote=Xyz22 post_id=<a href="tel:1194567">1194567</a> time=<a href="tel:1709410956">1709410956</a> user_id=44359]
To me, it's absolutely not normal.

You have Sainz that did a very good job in key overtakes and how he put pressure on Perez.
Then you have Leclerc who managed a very serious issue extremely well, being only 0.3s on avg slower than his quick teammate.

Instead of praising both for their races, what the commentators said? "Leclerc is stupid"

Agreed. It was a good team performance except for the part where they undercut Sainz with Leclerc. It was really unnecessary when they knew Leclerc had the issue and it affected his pace. It was done in bad faith imo.

I don’t think they were actively trying to sabotage Carlos. It was more about trying to ensure Charles finished as high as possible for overall team positions. Getting Charles into new tyres first was a priority given how many times he had locked up at that point.
[/quote]

If we go by your assumption then there should have been team orders for the second overtake but there wasnt any, Sainz had to fight for the place. Who knows, maybe there was a chance he could have been able to put more pressure on Checo. I just think it was not the most optimal strategy choice.

Regarding drivers I will have some hate but… I think they should have kept SAI and LEC

Of course you cannot lose opportunity to have a seven time champion but in terms of pressure and team peace I’m not convinced.

Agreed 100%. Sainz has been done dirty and I feel sorry for him.

I don't think Sainz has been done dirty. I don't like HAM and I never wanted him to race for Ferrari but this move makes sense from any angle you look at it. It is a win-win situation for Ferrari as well as HAM. He is way more marketable than any other F1 driver and Ferrari can reap benefits of this deal even after HAM retires.

[Vinlarr89]

[quote=Xyz22 post_id=<a href="tel:1194567">1194567</a> time=<a href="tel:1709410956">1709410956</a> user_id=44359]
To me, it's absolutely not normal.

You have Sainz that did a very good job in key overtakes and how he put pressure on Perez.
Then you have Leclerc who managed a very serious issue extremely well, being only 0.3s on avg slower than his quick teammate.

Instead of praising both for their races, what the commentators said? "Leclerc is stupid"

Agreed. It was a good team performance except for the part where they undercut Sainz with Leclerc. It was really unnecessary when they knew Leclerc had the issue and it affected his pace. It was done in bad faith imo.

I don’t think they were actively trying to sabotage Carlos. It was more about trying to ensure Charles finished as high as possible for overall team positions. Getting Charles into new tyres first was a priority given how many times he had locked up at that point.

If we go by your assumption then there should have been team orders for the second overtake but there wasnt any, Sainz had to fight for the place. Who knows, maybe there was a chance he could have been able to put more pressure on Checo. I just think it was not the most optimal strategy choice.

Regarding drivers I will have some hate but… I think they should have kept SAI and LEC

Of course you cannot lose opportunity to have a seven time champion but in terms of pressure and team peace I’m not convinced.

Agreed 100%. Sainz has been done dirty and I feel sorry for him.

I don't think Sainz has been done dirty. I don't like HAM and I never wanted him to race for Ferrari but this move makes sense from any angle you look at it. It is a win-win situation for Ferrari as well as HAM. He is way more marketable than any other F1 driver and Ferrari can reap benefits of this deal even after HAM retires.
[/quote]

100% agree. I too have always hated Hamilton. I don’t know how I’m going to feel when he’s racing for Ferrari, I guess time will tell. What can’t be disputed is the commercial and political clout that he carries that will only benefit the team.

[Vanja #66]

We aren’t having any of these conversations if he nearly as bad as you’re insinuating yet we’re here just like we have been for the past 65+ races.

We wouldn't be having any discussions if it was just me, but clearly it's not just me. Poor starts, rookie spins/crashes in multiple races, "my priority is to beat my team mate" are some of the reasons some Tifosi are dissapointed with Sainz. Just don't say there's no difference in mentality between the two of them, it's clear as day for all who want to see...

[CHT]

[quote=Xyz22 post_id=<a href="tel:1194567">1194567</a> time=<a href="tel:1709410956">1709410956</a> user_id=44359]
To me, it's absolutely not normal.

You have Sainz that did a very good job in key overtakes and how he put pressure on Perez.
Then you have Leclerc who managed a very serious issue extremely well, being only 0.3s on avg slower than his quick teammate.

Instead of praising both for their races, what the commentators said? "Leclerc is stupid"

Agreed. It was a good team performance except for the part where they undercut Sainz with Leclerc. It was really unnecessary when they knew Leclerc had the issue and it affected his pace. It was done in bad faith imo.

I don’t think they were actively trying to sabotage Carlos. It was more about trying to ensure Charles finished as high as possible for overall team positions. Getting Charles into new tyres first was a priority given how many times he had locked up at that point.

If we go by your assumption then there should have been team orders for the second overtake but there wasnt any, Sainz had to fight for the place. Who knows, maybe there was a chance he could have been able to put more pressure on Checo. I just think it was not the most optimal strategy choice.

Regarding drivers I will have some hate but… I think they should have kept SAI and LEC

Of course you cannot lose opportunity to have a seven time champion but in terms of pressure and team peace I’m not convinced.

Agreed 100%. Sainz has been done dirty and I feel sorry for him.

I don't think Sainz has been done dirty. I don't like HAM and I never wanted him to race for Ferrari but this move makes sense from any angle you look at it. It is a win-win situation for Ferrari as well as HAM. He is way more marketable than any other F1 driver and Ferrari can reap benefits of this deal even after HAM retires.
[/quote]

If Lewis Hamilton is unable to perform to the level of Tifosi's expectations I believe things will go south very quickly.
Being a 7WDC, expectations will be very high from both sides, but LH will have to deliver the result, especially against his younger teammate Charles.

Somehow I feel that LH might have already passed his prime and the grueling 24-race season may wear him out faster than he thought. Alonso for example has already started questioning his commitment to F1 in a recent interview when asked if he would consider joining Merc.

[Vanja #66]

I don't either, in a cold analysis Max is too far up the road, without having to push...

He didn't need to push, he wasn't pushed, but he did push. That's why he had the biggest degradation in Stint 2 of the podium trio. Stint 1 he was pushing to get +1s on Leclerc and then he managed his tyres. Stint 3 he went for an insane 32.4 and had to slow down and gradually get back to speed for 3 laps.



On the other hand, Sainz likely lost 4-5s to Max in the first stint and had no deg at all before he pitted. Ferrari was forced to pull him in due to chain reaction started by Hamilton (I think he went first?). They did good to try and undercut Perez with 2nd stop, but Perez was really good on his Softs and managed to stay just in front of Sainz even with massive deg. It looks to me like Ferrari misjudged the deg on Hards and could have set 3-4 tenths lower target for Sainz in Stint 3, but it would still be one thing to catch Perez and another to overtake him.

[Cassius]

I don't either, in a cold analysis Max is too far up the road, without having to push...

He didn't need to push, he wasn't pushed, but he did push. That's why he had the biggest degradation in Stint 2 of the podium trio. Stint 1 he was pushing to get +1s on Leclerc and then he managed his tyres. Stint 3 he went for an insane 32.4 and had to slow down and gradually get back to speed for 3 laps.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHrokZYWoAA ... =4096x4096

On the other hand, Sainz likely lost 4-5s to Max in the first stint and had no deg at all before he pitted. Ferrari was forced to pull him in due to chain reaction started by Hamilton (I think he went first?). They did good to try and undercut Perez with 2nd stop, but Perez was really good on his Softs and managed to stay just in front of Sainz even with massive deg. It looks to me like Ferrari misjudged the deg on Hards and could have set 3-4 tenths lower target for Sainz in Stint 3, but it would still be one thing to catch Perez and another to overtake him.

He created a SC gap to Perez during his hard stint and then backed off to match (or be closer to) the times of Perez.

Crazy to think of you he had more deg on hards than on softs.

[Juzh]

Last year Ferrari was slower than 2022 Ferrari in Jeddah.

Track wasn't the same (slower in 2023).

* This lap difference was T1, a weakness for Ferrari all weekend, and T11-12-13. In 11-12-13 Max is simply much faster while also not using the throttle that much. The difference is big

Ferrari stops deploying energy at ~240 kmh in those corners, that's why Lec is flatout and Ver isn't. It's a way to save tyres and energy for elsewhere.

* RBR has better traction out of all corners, particularly up to 200kph RBR just accelerates better, then Ferrari takes over. This likely is a difference in deployment, but RBR seems to be better.

To this day I do not understand what anyone means when they say this or that PU deploys energy sooner than another one out of traction zones. The aim for any manufacturer is to deploys as soon as possible when traction allows it. If you see one car accelerate faster than another it is because it's got better traction and/or is lighter - be it fuel or total car weight. It's got nothing to do with anyone deploying sooner or later. another factor could be peak power, but nowadays top engines are almost equal in most circumstances.

[f1isgood]

Last year Ferrari was slower than 2022 Ferrari in Jeddah.

Track wasn't the same (slower in 2023).

Yes it wasn't. But other teams still improved in race trim. You can check F1-Tempo even on the modified track. Just take this specific lap for instance.



It is clear how slow Ferrari were compared to 2022. The point still stands in my opinion.

Edited to make it more parseable.

[Andres125sx]

Sainz' being happy with P3 is why he's not considered an alien of his generation. Sr can pay race driving lessons and pressure some people to do things Jr's way, but Sr can't buy champion mentality for Jr. Or race start skill, for that matter...

When he does one good race without losing positions at the start and without the team helping him win, I will accept his assessment of a good race as a valid assessment. I'm really sad to see Sr has so much bad influence that Jr has to bs himself after every race instead of accepting he could have done a better job and start working on doing a better job. Helicopter parenting brings nothing good.

Some day, you should explain the reason for your obsession with Sainz family, so frequently blaming and defaming both the father and the son, for no reason

Finishig on the podium, ahead of his teammate, and being positive on TV, are obvious reasons to blame him, right?

This usually happens when Sainz finishes ahead of Leclerc, what happens more often than you probably like, but that must be just a coincidence

[Vanja #66]

He created a SC gap to Perez during his hard stint and then backed off to match (or be closer to) the times of Perez.

Crazy to think of you he had more deg on hards than on softs.

So last year in Stint 2 he was doing 20 laps of 37.5 flat on Softs( while opening a steady SC gap to Checco) and now he did 9 laps of 35.2 on Hards (at least 1s slower than Softs), but he wasn't pushing? RB20 is 3s a lap faster than RB19? Common people...

Thermal degradation is there on all compounds, it's related to how much energy is put into tyres causing them to heat up closer to temperatures providing maximum grip. Pirelli designs their compounds with fairly low temperature cliff before thermal deg occurs, just as they are requested to. There's no magic brick compound that doesn't experience deg, it can only happen that a track has such a surface and corner combo that the chosen Hard compound there can't be heated up so much no matter how much drivers are pushing in the race. Bahrain is absolutely not such a track.

[bluechris]

I don’t think of Vasseur as someone prone to hyperbole so this is encouraging:

“Throughout the weekend we went well on the fastest lap – clarified Vasseur – while on the race pace we need to make progress if we want to compete with Red Bull. Having said that, I consider this race a good starting point given that compared to a year ago our delay is significantly reduced. We will continue to develop the SF-24 and I am confident that we will often fight for first place."

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10582466/

Vasseur other problem is to ensure Ferrari made the right decision to replace Sainz.

Sainz might not always be the quickest during qualifying but he seems to have better race craft.

Better racecraft than Hamilton? I don't think so.