Christian Horner under Investigation

[CHT]

F1 is the place for excitement, lavishness, risk, entertainment, and extravagance, not a place for moral high ground and family entertainment. So F1 communities should stop judging others' private lives.

FIA should go after the people who leak private conversations to discourage others from using character assassination as a tool to bring down rival teams.

Hypothetically, suppose if Christian Horner decided to step down, I would think that many team owners will be keen to engage him to turn their team to become RB.

Perhaps Jos is instigating this to get CH across to Ferrari so that Max can join him?

I hope that your daughter, loved ones, family, and friends doesn't include any women that have had to cope with a misogynistic sexual predator for a boss.

I've personally seen it happen, or have had someone later confide in me, in four separate cases and it is absolutely devastating for the victims. I also know of one other case of a friend of a friend who tragically took her life because she worked in a small industry (not unlike F1) and was hounded out of it - after she made her formal complaint her boss twisted the process to clear him, fired her, and bad mouthed her to the other companies in that industry.

If Christian Horner is guilty then he has wrecked some poor girl's life, who from her texts was already battling some problems in her private life. His actions have put her at the centre of a media storm, put her in an untenable position in her job, and put this scandal at the top of Google search results if you search her name.

Think of all the other women in the industry who will be at more risk of similar occurring should Horner get away with this. It's declaring that this kind of behaviour is acceptable within the F1 paddock. Shame on anyone who tries to excuse his behaviour or dismiss its importance.

As the saying goes, it takes 2 to tango

While we are at it, what is your view about Flavio dating a supermodel less than half his age? To some it may be disgusting, to others Flavio may be an inspiration.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/a ... atore.html

[PapayaFan481]

F1 is the place for excitement, lavishness, risk, entertainment, and extravagance, not a place for moral high ground and family entertainment. So F1 communities should stop judging others' private lives.

FIA should go after the people who leak private conversations to discourage others from using character assassination as a tool to bring down rival teams.

Hypothetically, suppose if Christian Horner decided to step down, I would think that many team owners will be keen to engage him to turn their team to become RB.

Perhaps Jos is instigating this to get CH across to Ferrari so that Max can join him?

I hope that your daughter, loved ones, family, and friends doesn't include any women that have had to cope with a misogynistic sexual predator for a boss.

I've personally seen it happen, or have had someone later confide in me, in four separate cases and it is absolutely devastating for the victims. I also know of one other case of a friend of a friend who tragically took her life because she worked in a small industry (not unlike F1) and was hounded out of it - after she made her formal complaint her boss twisted the process to clear him, fired her, and bad mouthed her to the other companies in that industry.

If Christian Horner is guilty then he has wrecked some poor girl's life, who from her texts was already battling some problems in her private life. His actions have put her at the centre of a media storm, put her in an untenable position in her job, and put this scandal at the top of Google search results if you search her name.

Think of all the other women in the industry who will be at more risk of similar occurring should Horner get away with this. It's declaring that this kind of behaviour is acceptable within the F1 paddock. Shame on anyone who tries to excuse his behaviour or dismiss its importance.

As the saying goes, it takes 2 to tango

While we are at it, what is your view about Flavio dating a supermodel less than half his age? To some it may be disgusting, to others Flavio may be an inspiration.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/a ... atore.html

Apples and oranges. The two things are not even close ans you're just trying to use a logical fallacy to support your views of sexually coercive behaviour.

[myurr]

As the saying goes, it takes 2 to tango

While we are at it, what is your view about Flavio dating a supermodel less than half his age? To some it may be disgusting, to others Flavio may be an inspiration.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/a ... atore.html

Horner having an affair with someone isn't the problem, nor is there any problem with her consenting to that affair. It's morally wrong for Horner to have an affair whilst married but that's private.

The problem is that he repeatedly abused his position of power as the victim's employer to coerce her into continuing the affair. She withdrew her consent, asked him to stop, and he didn't. He continued with the controlling and abusive behaviour, he continued to pester her for video calls, photos, calling round to her hotel room, etc. He even referenced offering her a "way out" from his behaviour to which she replied that she didn't want to leave her job.

If Flavio employs that model less than half his age and abuses his position of power over her to coerce her into that relationship then yes it is categorically disgusting. If he doesn't and it's simply a private choice between two consenting adults then who am I to judge? On face value there is no parallel at all to what Horner has allegedly done.

Whilst I find your comparison to be illogical and unrelated, you obviously think it similar. Do you think Horner is an inspiration?

[Ground Effect]

F1 is the place for excitement, lavishness, risk, entertainment, and extravagance, not a place for moral high ground and family entertainment. So F1 communities should stop judging others' private lives.

FIA should go after the people who leak private conversations to discourage others from using character assassination as a tool to bring down rival teams.

Hypothetically, suppose if Christian Horner decided to step down, I would think that many team owners will be keen to engage him to turn their team to become RB.

Perhaps Jos is instigating this to get CH across to Ferrari so that Max can join him?

I hope that your daughter, loved ones, family, and friends doesn't include any women that have had to cope with a misogynistic sexual predator for a boss.

I've personally seen it happen, or have had someone later confide in me, in four separate cases and it is absolutely devastating for the victims. I also know of one other case of a friend of a friend who tragically took her life because she worked in a small industry (not unlike F1) and was hounded out of it - after she made her formal complaint her boss twisted the process to clear him, fired her, and bad mouthed her to the other companies in that industry.

If Christian Horner is guilty then he has wrecked some poor girl's life, who from her texts was already battling some problems in her private life. His actions have put her at the centre of a media storm, put her in an untenable position in her job, and put this scandal at the top of Google search results if you search her name.

Think of all the other women in the industry who will be at more risk of similar occurring should Horner get away with this. It's declaring that this kind of behaviour is acceptable within the F1 paddock. Shame on anyone who tries to excuse his behaviour or dismiss its importance.

As the saying goes, it takes 2 to tango

While we are at it, what is your view about Flavio dating a supermodel less than half his age? To some it may be disgusting, to others Flavio may be an inspiration.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/a ... atore.html

Im sorry, but this is a ridiculous comparison, almost insane. Huge respect to the posters above that took their time to point out the difference.

[mendis]

He wasn't asked about the investigation, he was asked about the leaved screenshot. Except there's a part of the NDA that states: If in future screenshots are leaked you cannot confirm or deny the authenticity... Talk about covering all areas..

Here I thought, anything related to an investigation is confidential! Didn't you wrote that NDA!

You think if a report came out after the investigation and said Horner raped the lady in question he wouldn't say that is totally flalse? You think he wouldn't come out and threaten legal action against whichever paper carried the story? Or would he say I can't comment, NDA etc?

What is happening currently is no different than what you stated!!! It's character assassination. Taking a different example to debate the same thing doesn't add any value and just makes the discussion stale. Like I had said before, people WANT TO BELIEVE what they really want to believe even if the material is unsubstantiated. Truth really doesn't matter and neither the process of validating truth if that's not inline with what they want to believe. I am 100% sure that even if Horner comes out and says, it's fake, nobody believes him as they already believed in what they want.

[CHT]

As the saying goes, it takes 2 to tango

While we are at it, what is your view about Flavio dating a supermodel less than half his age? To some it may be disgusting, to others Flavio may be an inspiration.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/a ... atore.html

Horner having an affair with someone isn't the problem, nor is there any problem with her consenting to that affair. It's morally wrong for Horner to have an affair whilst married but that's private.

The problem is that he repeatedly abused his position of power as the victim's employer to coerce her into continuing the affair. She withdrew her consent, asked him to stop, and he didn't. He continued with the controlling and abusive behaviour, he continued to pester her for video calls, photos, calling round to her hotel room, etc. He even referenced offering her a "way out" from his behaviour to which she replied that she didn't want to leave her job.

If Flavio employs that model less than half his age and abuses his position of power over her to coerce her into that relationship then yes it is categorically disgusting. If he doesn't and it's simply a private choice between two consenting adults then who am I to judge? On face value there is no parallel at all to what Horner has allegedly done.

Whilst I find your comparison to be illogical and unrelated, you obviously think it similar. Do you think Horner is an inspiration?

According to the dictionary, the meaning of Affairs means

"to have a sexual relationship, and especially a secret one with someone you are not married to, or with someone who is married to someone else"

Did Horner and the complainant did have a sexual relationship?

If not, then why are you making this up to make Honer sound like a sexual predator?

As for the case of Flavio, are you now saying its perfectly fine to have your daughters, family members going around looking for sugar daddies like Flavio?

[CMSMJ1]

F1 is the place for excitement, lavishness, risk, entertainment, and extravagance, not a place for moral high ground and family entertainment. So F1 communities should stop judging others' private lives.

FIA should go after the people who leak private conversations to discourage others from using character assassination as a tool to bring down rival teams.

Hypothetically, suppose if Christian Horner decided to step down, I would think that many team owners will be keen to engage him to turn their team to become RB.

Perhaps Jos is instigating this to get CH across to Ferrari so that Max can join him?

I hope that your daughter, loved ones, family, and friends doesn't include any women that have had to cope with a misogynistic sexual predator for a boss.

I've personally seen it happen, or have had someone later confide in me, in four separate cases and it is absolutely devastating for the victims. I also know of one other case of a friend of a friend who tragically took her life because she worked in a small industry (not unlike F1) and was hounded out of it - after she made her formal complaint her boss twisted the process to clear him, fired her, and bad mouthed her to the other companies in that industry.

If Christian Horner is guilty then he has wrecked some poor girl's life, who from her texts was already battling some problems in her private life. His actions have put her at the centre of a media storm, put her in an untenable position in her job, and put this scandal at the top of Google search results if you search her name.

Think of all the other women in the industry who will be at more risk of similar occurring should Horner get away with this. It's declaring that this kind of behaviour is acceptable within the F1 paddock. Shame on anyone who tries to excuse his behaviour or dismiss its importance.

As the saying goes, it takes 2 to tango

While we are at it, what is your view about Flavio dating a supermodel less than half his age? To some it may be disgusting, to others Flavio may be an inspiration.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/a ... atore.html

Come on CHT - this is out of order and not a sensible position to take.

Women have enough difficulty in reporting this behaviour and it is the men that need to call it out as wrong.

Flavio is a creep - would you want a 60yr old perving on your daughter? Have a word..

[CHT]

I hope that your daughter, loved ones, family, and friends doesn't include any women that have had to cope with a misogynistic sexual predator for a boss.

I've personally seen it happen, or have had someone later confide in me, in four separate cases and it is absolutely devastating for the victims. I also know of one other case of a friend of a friend who tragically took her life because she worked in a small industry (not unlike F1) and was hounded out of it - after she made her formal complaint her boss twisted the process to clear him, fired her, and bad mouthed her to the other companies in that industry.

If Christian Horner is guilty then he has wrecked some poor girl's life, who from her texts was already battling some problems in her private life. His actions have put her at the centre of a media storm, put her in an untenable position in her job, and put this scandal at the top of Google search results if you search her name.

Think of all the other women in the industry who will be at more risk of similar occurring should Horner get away with this. It's declaring that this kind of behaviour is acceptable within the F1 paddock. Shame on anyone who tries to excuse his behaviour or dismiss its importance.

As the saying goes, it takes 2 to tango

While we are at it, what is your view about Flavio dating a supermodel less than half his age? To some it may be disgusting, to others Flavio may be an inspiration.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/a ... atore.html

Come on CHT - this is out of order and not a sensible position to take.

Women have enough difficulty in reporting this behaviour and it is the men that need to call it out as wrong.

Flavio is a creep - would you want a 60yr old perving on your daughter? Have a word..

Flavio is a creep, Max Mosley is worst I think

I reckon there are plenty of "creep" out there in F1, just that its not leaked.

[Jdn1327]

I think the main thing here is that even if CH did send these messages or pictures or whatever it may be. Affairs happen everyday...especially in a working environment. This is a pure attempt at character assassination. F1, Ford and Redbull are being pushed into a corner in a world that is very sensitive when it comes to coercive behaviour in the work place. The affair may not be the main issue here. I think the means to which CH achieved said affair needs to be judged...did he threaten this person? Did he make a subtle remark about her position in the company when she tried to stop it? If the answer is Yes to any of these questions...then CH should be taking a walk. If the entire affair was consensual from both sides...then it's a workplace matter and all Redbull have done is air out dirty laundry...

[myurr]

According to the dictionary, the meaning of Affairs means

"to have a sexual relationship, and especially a secret one with someone you are not married to, or with someone who is married to someone else"

Did Horner and the complainant did have a sexual relationship?

If not, then why are you making this up to make Honer sound like a sexual predator?

Because if he is guilty of what he appears to be guilty of, with all the usual caveats about due process and the possibility it's all made up (even though that seems increasingly unlikely), then Horner categorically is a sexual predator and should be treated as such.

Let me try a different approach... if the victim had never consented, they'd never had any kind of affair, do you believe that Horner's behaviour was acceptable? Do you think it's okay to unsolicitedly repeatedly ask someone for pictures, to attempt to video call them at all hours, to try and call them to get them to listen to you masturbate, to try and control who they spend time with at work because you are jealous, to call round their hotel room, to ask them what they're wearing underneath their pyjamas, to tell them that the way out from enduring your behaviour is to leave their job? Is this how you live your life and interact with others?

I hope we can agree that such behaviour is thoroughly wrong and disgusting, against employment law, and almost certainly against Red Bull policy.

Which leaves the question of consent. Do you think a woman has the right to end a relationship with someone, to withdraw consent? Or once a woman has consented she is permanently locked into a relationship with someone?

[CHT]

According to the dictionary, the meaning of Affairs means

"to have a sexual relationship, and especially a secret one with someone you are not married to, or with someone who is married to someone else"

Did Horner and the complainant did have a sexual relationship?

If not, then why are you making this up to make Honer sound like a sexual predator?

Because if he is guilty of what he appears to be guilty of, with all the usual caveats about due process and the possibility it's all made up (even though that seems increasingly unlikely), then Horner categorically is a sexual predator and should be treated as such.

Let me try a different approach... if the victim had never consented, they'd never had any kind of affair, do you believe that Horner's behaviour was acceptable? Do you think it's okay to unsolicitedly repeatedly ask someone for pictures, to attempt to video call them at all hours, to try and call them to get them to listen to you masturbate, to try and control who they spend time with at work because you are jealous, to call round their hotel room, to ask them what they're wearing underneath their pyjamas, to tell them that the way out from enduring your behaviour is to leave their job? Is this how you live your life and interact with others?

I hope we can agree that such behaviour is thoroughly wrong and disgusting, against employment law, and almost certainly against Red Bull policy.

Which leaves the question of consent. Do you think a woman has the right to end a relationship with someone, to withdraw consent? Or once a woman has consented she is permanently locked into a relationship with someone?

Please clarify your statement about Horner having affairs with his Co-workers.

Did Horner have a sexual relationship with the complainant as you claimed? Yes or No?

Just curious, wow much do you know about the complainant?

[myurr]

According to the dictionary, the meaning of Affairs means

"to have a sexual relationship, and especially a secret one with someone you are not married to, or with someone who is married to someone else"

Did Horner and the complainant did have a sexual relationship?

If not, then why are you making this up to make Honer sound like a sexual predator?

Because if he is guilty of what he appears to be guilty of, with all the usual caveats about due process and the possibility it's all made up (even though that seems increasingly unlikely), then Horner categorically is a sexual predator and should be treated as such.

Let me try a different approach... if the victim had never consented, they'd never had any kind of affair, do you believe that Horner's behaviour was acceptable? Do you think it's okay to unsolicitedly repeatedly ask someone for pictures, to attempt to video call them at all hours, to try and call them to get them to listen to you masturbate, to try and control who they spend time with at work because you are jealous, to call round their hotel room, to ask them what they're wearing underneath their pyjamas, to tell them that the way out from enduring your behaviour is to leave their job? Is this how you live your life and interact with others?

I hope we can agree that such behaviour is thoroughly wrong and disgusting, against employment law, and almost certainly against Red Bull policy.

Which leaves the question of consent. Do you think a woman has the right to end a relationship with someone, to withdraw consent? Or once a woman has consented she is permanently locked into a relationship with someone?

Please clarify your statement about Horner having affairs with his Co-workers.

Did Horner have a sexual relationship with the complainant as you claimed? Yes or No?

If you want to continue this discussion then please answer my questions and stop deflecting. Do you believe that had there never been a consensual affair that such behaviour is appropriate? If you cannot answer that question then you are not acting in good faith.

[DChemTech]

I think the main thing here is that even if CH did send these messages or pictures or whatever it may be. Affairs happen everyday...especially in a working environment. This is a pure attempt at character assassination. F1, Ford and Redbull are being pushed into a corner in a world that is very sensitive when it comes to coercive behaviour in the work place. The affair may not be the main issue here. I think the means to which CH achieved said affair needs to be judged...did he threaten this person? Did he make a subtle remark about her position in the company when she tried to stop it? If the answer is Yes to any of these questions...then CH should be taking a walk. If the entire affair was consensual from both sides...then it's a workplace matter and all Redbull have done is air out dirty laundry...

Affairs happen every day, as do regular relationships growing out of a work environment. There is nothing wrong with that (well, except for the private implications in the former, but that is not a professional matter), if the parties involved have no hierarchical professional relationship. However, when engaging in romantic acts with a subordinate, there áre professional aspects at play, which do form a problem. Hence, no affairs/relationships with subordinates, and as team principal, that basically means anyone in the team (except perhaps with Helmut, if they so desire).

[CHT]

Because if he is guilty of what he appears to be guilty of, with all the usual caveats about due process and the possibility it's all made up (even though that seems increasingly unlikely), then Horner categorically is a sexual predator and should be treated as such.

Let me try a different approach... if the victim had never consented, they'd never had any kind of affair, do you believe that Horner's behaviour was acceptable? Do you think it's okay to unsolicitedly repeatedly ask someone for pictures, to attempt to video call them at all hours, to try and call them to get them to listen to you masturbate, to try and control who they spend time with at work because you are jealous, to call round their hotel room, to ask them what they're wearing underneath their pyjamas, to tell them that the way out from enduring your behaviour is to leave their job? Is this how you live your life and interact with others?

I hope we can agree that such behaviour is thoroughly wrong and disgusting, against employment law, and almost certainly against Red Bull policy.

Which leaves the question of consent. Do you think a woman has the right to end a relationship with someone, to withdraw consent? Or once a woman has consented she is permanently locked into a relationship with someone?

Please clarify your statement about Horner having affairs with his Co-workers.

Did Horner have a sexual relationship with the complainant as you claimed? Yes or No?

If you want to continue this discussion then please answer my questions and stop deflecting. Do you believe that had there never been a consensual affair that such behaviour is appropriate? If you cannot answer that question then you are not acting in good faith.

In your words, you claim that Honer as boss forced his co-worker into an affair, I am just asking how sure are you that they have a sexual relationship.

And what is your motive in spreading falsehood on Horner if you are unsure?

[Jdn1327]

I think the main thing here is that even if CH did send these messages or pictures or whatever it may be. Affairs happen everyday...especially in a working environment. This is a pure attempt at character assassination. F1, Ford and Redbull are being pushed into a corner in a world that is very sensitive when it comes to coercive behaviour in the work place. The affair may not be the main issue here. I think the means to which CH achieved said affair needs to be judged...did he threaten this person? Did he make a subtle remark about her position in the company when she tried to stop it? If the answer is Yes to any of these questions...then CH should be taking a walk. If the entire affair was consensual from both sides...then it's a workplace matter and all Redbull have done is air out dirty laundry...

Affairs happen every day, as do regular relationships growing out of a work environment. There is nothing wrong with that (well, except for the private implications in the former, but that is not a professional matter), if the parties involved have no hierarchical professional relationship. However, when engaging in romantic acts with a subordinate, there áre professional aspects at play, which do form a problem. Hence, no affairs/relationships with subordinates, and as team principal, that basically means anyone in the team (except perhaps with Helmut, if they so desire).

Yeah well we see what problems it formed now. Redbull should have tried to handle this internally all along. Why release statements about the investigation in the first place? I'm sure other teams have had similar incidents but, like organisations under a public microscope, they chose to deal with it internally. Ford and F1 want a resolution now...all this seems unnecessary.