Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
jaslfc wrote:read it.... dont quite like the changes.. by standardizing many parts of the cars it take out the 'inovation' factor of the cars
I hate same things but love back to slicks, wider wheels, wider cars, manual gearbox and clutch. I believe that modern gearboxes are the main reason for lack of racing and overtaking that we had in the previous 10-12 years so this should spice up the things a lot.
The proposed rules are transforming formula 1 into formula stupid. whats the point of having standardised item like brakes, engine ecu, gear ratios(!!!! silly), height of c.g, brake and tyres??
this will remove the innovation from F1. Its getting cheap formula.Lack of racing and overtaking is not 100% due to aerodynamics and advanced gearbox. Put several great drivers in a few different car (of course not one in minardi and one in renault) and they will overtake.
Let the rule stabilise and we will see the new champion, like this year.
To drastically cut the cost...well...poor team can always downgrade to lower formula. let f1 be the flagship of all racing formula...not just another simple and cheap formula!
I'm pretty much behind the FIA thinking. Bottom line is that F1 is a car race and the heroes are the drivers. I like to feel I am watching the best drivers in the world duking it out and using real skill. The technology, to a great extent, makes F1 different from other series (I'm contradicting myself here ) and is important.
Just as long as the FIA leave enough room for manouvre for good engineering to shine through, that technological interest will remain; and as long as they ensure that F1 remains the fastest series on earth (around a street circuit) then it will be the pinnacle of motorsport that it should be. Don't forget they are suggesting that if the focus on aero gains is reduced due to the shift in emphasis, then the mighty brains in F1 will improve the chassis engineering; which is more likely to feed into road cars.
They state the case for CofG control very well (to limit the benefit of using ballast). Brakes, again I don't really think that standardisation will detract from the interest of the series (although you would have to worry about liability if any braking components fail). Gearboxes - maybe this is one of their "negotiating pawns" - even so, I read it that the have a single manufacturer - I am sure they would still have a wide range of ratios available. It seems to me that standard gearboxes could be troublesome - imagine the uproar if a 'box failed - how would the race team feel when they did not have to look inward to blame someone?
I have to add this… I’m not at all for ban of any technology no matter what cost, but since FIA is constantly slowly banning technology that doesn’t kill the overtaking and leaves the one that kills it, than I vote for racing without much technology instead of what we have today - no overtaking and very crippled technology.
I'm pretty sure that if there is less restrictions there would be more overtaking just as it was in '50s, '60s, '70s, '80s and first half of the '90s.
If it was up to me FIA should only think about safety and leave technology to be developed at teams and sponsors expense. This cost cutting is stupidity and since it started in early ‘90s things get worse every season without any primary goals achieved.
Formula 1 should be most expensive, ultra high tech sport with only basic limitations like engine capacity, dimensions and safety requirements. Rest of the things should be left free for development.
Formula One is the ultimate motor sport in the world. And pretty much of that idea for me it's that I'm gonna see the best race drives and the state of art car technology.
I agree sometimes it's necessary to take a step back, i believe were necessary to ban the turbo engines and the ground effect in the 80's. It was about drivers safety.
Now I think the circuit are safer than ever and the cars as well. It's really important to have a competitive championship. But I don't think it's necessary to take the f1 back to the 60's and 70's.
There are things that can be done to have more overtakes and so on, without take off the technology behind the f1.
Simply reducing the diameter of the brake disc and you're gonna have more overtakes. And you wouldn't have to go back to the iron discs. The brake power of the cars are so great and they're being able to brake so close to the turn that is almost impossible to overtake.
And after all Formula one is a expensive sport. And Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Toyota and so on, knew the budget needed to compete. It's bad teams like Minardi and Jordan can't stand against the big ones, but it's part of the game.
Why don't they just call it formula 3 and get it over with?
I thought the idea of formula 1 was to be the pinacle of motorsport achievement, for both drivers and manufacturers. Personally i'd like to see some more of the technology brought back into the sport, like active suspension. But to reduce costs allow the smaller teams to buy components or complete cars from the larger manufacturers....they already sell them engines why not the suspension and chassis too?
Take a good, hard look over at NASCAR. Although the Formula One cars will never resemble the NASCAR stock cars, they are moving closer and closer each year.
But NASCAR does not pretend to be anything but a spec racer series, with almost all the emphasis on the drivers. The cars, basically are very old technology, with no allowance for major innovation.
And if these new rules are implimented, Formula One will be much closer to NASCAR in spirit, where the technology is just the backdrop for the drivers and their antics on the track.
I don't dislike NASCAR, I consider it just like pro wrestling, where great athletes compete purely for the crowd's entertainent. But Formula One is supposed to be about a glorious history of fierce competition, excellence in technology, and just great racing. I do not want to see Formula One become just another spec series, where innovation is just a buzzword, and politics more important than what happens on the track.
There's been all this talk about standard this and standard that. Lots of standardised parts that really bother people and the high tech image of F1. But what if rather than standard brakes, gear ratio's, etc, the FIA introduced a standardised monocoque. That way they could directly control a big chunk of the weight distrobution, fix engine mounting points and would have total control over safety, meanwhile severly curtailing neccessary development expenses. The teams wouls still design their own aero packages, but just around the standardised monocoque. Add to that the standardised suspension pickup points, this could be a good way to satisfy all parties equally.
"I'll bring us through this. As always. I'll carry you - kicking and screaming - and in the end you'll thank me. "
A very long time ago, race cars and street cars were basically the same. Over the years, pure race cars have evolved into their own species, with little in common with their street counterparts. Over the years, in many racing series, certain rules have been used in an attempt to have the race cars mimic some of their real world cousins. I recall during the fuel crisis, fuel mileage and economy became relevant, and rules were adjusted to force teams to (hopefully) increase their fuel mileage.
Spring forward to the present, and take a careful look at who the real players in Formula One are.. major auto manufacturers. BMW, Mercedes, Honda, Toyota, Renault all are heavily comitted to this sport. They are there for business purposes, to increase the prestige of their road cars.
The new rules need to reflect these conditions. Naturally, to allow the manufacturers to run the series would be catastrophic. But they need to be able to express their needs.
So if there are going to be any rule changes, listen to the manufacturers, the big boys who bring a lot of money to the table. Allow features that they produce, or intend ot produce in their road cars. Traction control, ABS, active suspension, heck, anything that may be relevant to the real world.
This way, the series sudenly becomes very attractive to major auto manufacturers, because they can boast of their technology to customers.
If can be argued that this would probably increase costs. I don't think that is a terrible sin, because manufacturers can use their Research and development budgets for racing, instead of just the Public Relations funds.
I really don't think Max's cost cutting methods are valid. This one tire rule is supposed to reduce costs. But how much money did the teams lose at Indy? How much investment in a race was totally wasted? I am willing to bet that the money lost in the fiasco at Indy is a heck of a lot more than the costs savings for the tire budget. Save a penny, waste a dollar.
I agree. Bring back the open formula to F1. Turbo's ground effects etc and make the engine rule a little more open like in the early 90's. Ground effects are dangerous. They seem to think that cause the car can go faster the drivers are more likely to get killed. Well that was when the cars weren't as safe. Let them do their thing. There is a limit to the human body and so technology can only carry them to a certain point and then the driver will be maxed out. So there is a theoretical limit to the speed the car can go around a circuit.
Besides all that innovation in F1 eventually gets filtered down to production cars. With higher tech cars it will also give us a better show and allow for more passing on the track. Heck I remember the 80's and 90's where innovation was Key. The cars might be fast but it didnt mean they were reliable enough to make it to the end of the race. Lets see a NA-V10 NA-V12 and a turbo V4 or v6 in the series. Let them push the limits. Cost cutting doesn't do anything for F1.
Oh and manufactures? Well they never stay in any racing too long. Most of them come and go on a whim. You can never depend on manufactures or one day you wont have enough cars competing. That been the long and short of the problem with Sports car for a very long time. Ferrari is by far the only manufacturer to stick with racing through thick and thin. At least in F1. They droped outa sports car long ago.
I hope the meeting of the team flatly denies this rule change quickly. Its mostly BS. There are some good parts to it though. Wider cars, and YAY slicks again. The rest can go in the bin.
to b honest its all a load od rubbish. July's edition of F1 Racing outlines the new regulations very well. In it Max Mosley is quoted as saying "F1 has lost touch with reality"...so what do you want Max? shall we race Renualt Clio's and Toyota Yaris'??? In fact maybe that is what he wants because then they could race against Ferrari Enzo's!!! JUST what Max wants...REALITY. Somebody needs to get rid of Max as it seems to me that F1 has not lost touch of reality (because that assumes F1 EVER had touch with it!) it seems to me that Max has lost touch with F1.
F1 IS NOT ABOUT REALITY...it is about the PINACLE of motorsport, HIGH TECHOLOGY and MAN WORKING WITH MACHINE...it is EXTREME and in that sence F1 has never been in touch with reality otherwise we'd be racing normal road cars...if you want that Max go play on Gran Turismo 4 on the PS2....you can race an old 1886 Daimler Benz motor carriage on it...just like when you was in your 40's you old kodger!
F1 CANNOT be run by somebody like Max....he is not Motorsport material and never was...before getting involved in F1 he wanted to b prime minister! F1 is a second love in his life...whereas Bernie owned a team and even raced...Bernie LOVES F1...Max loves politics....and it's his stupid politics that have put F1 in the state it is in today. THANK GOD HIS POLITICL CAREAR FAILED...just imagine if he was the british prime minister...its too horrible to think about! Somebody get rid os Max...QUICK!
Silence is golden when you don't know a good answer.
What a joke.Do you think Ferrari would let another team use their chassis and bodywork (Enzo would turn in his grave)
Obviously Max is wanting the teams to start their own series.
Keitho wrote:What a joke.Do you think Ferrari would let another team use their chassis and bodywork (Enzo would turn in his grave)
Obviously Max is wanting the teams to start their own series.
Enzo is already turning in his grave for years since his cars are painted in corporate Marlboro red instead of Ferrari red. Should I mention selling Ferrari engines to other teams and Shuey’s moves?
) and is important.
