Christian Horner under Investigation

[TFSA]

Well, at least the BusinessF1 report gives a more detailed picture than the Red Bull press releases.
However, I wouldn't expect Red Bull to confirm the reports publicly either...
Nevertheless, they remain completely plausible.
And as far as I know, they have not been denied so far.

BusinessF1 is the same magazine who started the entire Susie Wolff debacle. I was the one who started the thread because i took the bait.

Not making that mistake again. I'm not trusting that magazine any further than i can throw them.

[f1jcw]

I wonder how Redbull actually makes so much money, in the late 90s I can remember it being a popular going out drink mixed with Vodka. I don't see that anymore. and even when used as a energy drink I see Monster and Prime being more popular.

[mendis]

I am not looking for speculation, fiction and conjecture. If there is a Red Bull GmbH press release that talks about Thai owners engineering a dismissal of the case, it would be a great info to read.

If you want to treat Red Bull press releases as gospel then you may as well go back to arguing they didn't break the budget cap, or that "There are no issues here. The team are united and we are focused on racing".

I can tell you categorically that it was the board of directors who made the decision, rather than an independent lawyer, based upon 25+ years of being a board director and having voted on more than one case of this nature. The "independent" investigation was a report by a lawyer given to the board documenting their interviews with all relevant parties and any other evidence gathered. It would not include a definitive conclusion. Red Bull's press release on this is deliberately ambiguous but note the semantic separation between saying the report is complete, and Red Bull can confirm the grievance has been dismissed. Not that Mr Horner was found innocent by the investigation. Not that the investigator dismissed the grievance. It's the board who dismissed the grievance as it is a decision they make on behalf of the business as the legal entity responsible for complying with the relevant laws and regulations.

Like I said, it's important to rely on official and authentic information. The world is full of misinformation.

On a lighter note, hopefully, as a board director you didn't rely upon speculative information while voting on serious matters.

[myurr]

It's a speculation if something is said without any official source for it. BusinessF1 isn't Red Bull GmbH, it's just media.
If something isn't denied, it's true? Did anyone even ask Oliver Mintzalaf if Thai owners engineered the dismissal of the case? He is the CEO.

From a quick Google he is the CEO of Corporate Projects and New Investments, and not a member of the board. He wouldn't have even seen the report, and officially would just have been handed the decision by the board. It's of course possible they gave more detail but not a given.

[myurr]

Like I said, it's important to rely on official and authentic information. The world is full of misinformation.

On a lighter note, hopefully, as a board director you didn't rely upon speculative information while voting on serious matters.

Ha, we always tried not to, but I can tell you that politics at that level can be really awful. I can also attest that on more than one occasion a vote was conducted with the likely penalties for a certain course of action being taken being weighed against the benefits, and the penalties weren't always severe enough to dissuade the board from taking certain risks / following certain avenues. Votes weren't always unanimous either.

[mendis]

It's a speculation if something is said without any official source for it. BusinessF1 isn't Red Bull GmbH, it's just media.
If something isn't denied, it's true? Did anyone even ask Oliver Mintzalaf if Thai owners engineered the dismissal of the case? He is the CEO.

From a quick Google he is the CEO of Corporate Projects and New Investments, and not a member of the board. He wouldn't have even seen the report, and officially would just have been handed the decision by the board. It's of course possible they gave more detail but not a given.

As far I understand, CEO report to the board and everything that happens in an organization, comes under the purview of a CEO. Board doesn't govern the operational matters of an organization, that's why you have Chief Operations Officer, Chief Financial Officer, Chief of HR and all these individuals report to CEO. The CEOs of the subsidiaries roll into the CEO of the parent organization, which in this case is Oliver.

If there is a sexual harassment related complaint, it's handled by the HR and they constitute a committee in line with the local labor laws and the labor laws of the countries where the subsidiary is situated if the matter is involving the subsidiary. Board of Directors of the parent organization doesn't do that and neither do they commission a redressal committee. It's matter handled by HR, including the appointment of the independent barrister. The outcome of the investigation is then reviewed by the CEO of the parent, if the case is involving a higher authority of the subsidiary. Depending upon the autonomy bestowed on the CEO, either that CEO can act alone and move ahead with executing the decision or inform the decision to the board first to ensure the chain of command is kept in loop and then execute the decision. Either ways, the buck stops at CEO when it comes to execution.

[Quantum]

Oh we could wait for that then? No silly me that wouldn't be as fun as making stuff up!

Highly unlikely this was all a figment of a collective mind hive imagination. Unless I'm under some illusory spell, Red Bull had to publicly state there was an investigation into Horner.

I don't think you understand what I wrote: "They" has nothing to do with the complainant, so no I was not accusing them of that in the slightest.

Sure anyone could be anyone, you say you didn't mean the complainant, and I'll take your word for that.

so imagine how much harder it would be to whitewash if anyone were to pursue allegations in a court other than that of public opinion. Imagine if they used anything other than anonymous leakers and sources!

[littlebigcat]

For a non motorsport perspective

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... e-red-bull

[balex]

Highly unlikely this was all a figment of a collective mind hive imagination. Unless I'm under some illusory spell, Red Bull had to publicly state there was an investigation into Horner.

No you're right, because we're back to talking about what actually happened, which is great: Redbull investigated an internal complaint against Horner.

Which brings us back to my original question, which you kindly engaged: Since learning of that, what other facts have been credibly established that let us make a better moral judgement on the matter? Any?

And since we decided to make so much noise about it in the meantime, has anyone checked in with how the complainant wanted this whole thing handled? Because we're making all this noise for their benefit, right?

[dans79]

I wonder how Redbull actually makes so much money, in the late 90s I can remember it being a popular going out drink mixed with Vodka. I don't see that anymore.

You literally just described the first time I ever tasted Redbull. I was at a bar with friends, a buddy handed me a drink and said try this. I took one sip of it, and almost gaged!

[les arcs]

I wonder how Redbull actually makes so much money, in the late 90s I can remember it being a popular going out drink mixed with Vodka. I don't see that anymore. and even when used as a energy drink I see Monster and Prime being more popular.

There is a Rauch factory, who produce the muck in the cans, on the Swiss, Austrian and Lichtenstein border, according to a friend of mine who lives nearby, in 2015 they were producing 13500000 cans of RedBull a day for some of the Western Europe market.
They are awash with cash.

[astracrazy]

So now it turns out Jos was spending a lot of time with this women and became angry when he found out her and CH were texting.

[f1jcw]

I wonder how Redbull actually makes so much money, in the late 90s I can remember it being a popular going out drink mixed with Vodka. I don't see that anymore. and even when used as a energy drink I see Monster and Prime being more popular.

There is a Rauch factory, who produce the muck in the cans, on the Swiss, Austrian and Lichtenstein border, according to a friend of mine who lives nearby, in 2015 they were producing 13500000 cans of RedBull a day for some of the Western Europe market.
They are awash with cash.

It is a mystery, just quickly googled

Several studies in healthy adults have shown that drinking one 12-ounce (355-ml) can of Red Bull significantly increased blood pressure and heart rate levels within 90 minutes and up to 24 hours after consumption

[vorticism]

I wonder how Redbull actually makes so much money, in the late 90s

It's twenty twenty *checks Nokia in RB liveried case* four. Winning championships helps. As it relates, how much prize money did Merc collect the past three years?

[f1jcw]

I wonder how Redbull actually makes so much money, in the late 90s

It's twenty twenty *checks Nokia in RB liveried case* four. Winning championships helps. As it relates, how much prize money did Merc collect the past three years?

In Formula 1, I think the old saying still fits to Make money you have to have money.