2024 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix - Jeddah, March 07 - 09

[venkyhere]

After watching the above debrief video, I wonder why Merc do not have a larger tolerance than 1 to 2 degrees? (5-8 min of the video) That seems to unreasonable a tolerance with the variables that inevitably affect most any race. Certainly the amount of air reaching one car following another must be assumed can/could/will occur, and certainly Merc knew their pace going into the race was likely not within the top 2 places, and if falling out 1 degree causes a 2 to 3 tenths loss in time, it just seems an unwise engineering exercise to make tolerances that tight with a variance that is so costly. It doesn’t seem reasonable is what I’m saying — a set up for failure kinda thing — whereby it’s so impractical of a value the perfection required to carry out the task simply cannot be reasonably attained within the unknowns of a race.

Is it calls like this which cost Merc ultimately? Or is every team like this?

I'm not sure if the margins are in 1, 2 degree range as they say, but still, I think it is just the cooling philosophy of the team and we've seen this for quite a few years now. Recall those races where sometimes they've had to come through traffic and they struggled with engine temps. Even when their PU had the best power and efficiency, they used to run bafflingly thin margins on cooling - even when they could afford to run a bit looser with their cooling they stuck to the tightest solutions. Last race was a more egregious occurrence of the same philosophy. Perhaps it was a mistake, perhaps it was an incorrect simulation. But they all stem from the Merc aggressive cooling philosophy.

Contrast this with RB20 where all kinds of holes are opened on the car, and still it's faster in the straights.
He he

[Seanspeed]

merc still dont know why is car overheating and they were slower max 0.3sec, even with everything OK they cant attack Newey.
Obviously Lewis knew why he switch to ferrari.

After watching the above debrief video, I wonder why Merc do not have a larger tolerance than 1 to 2 degrees? (5-8 min of the video) That seems to unreasonable a tolerance with the variables that inevitably affect most any race. Certainly the amount of air reaching one car following another must be assumed can/could/will occur, and certainly Merc knew their pace going into the race was likely not within the top 2 places, and if falling out 1 degree causes a 2 to 3 tenths loss in time, it just seems an unwise engineering exercise to make tolerances that tight with a variance that is so costly. It doesn’t seem reasonable is what I’m saying — a set up for failure kinda thing — whereby it’s so impractical of a value the perfection required to carry out the task simply cannot be reasonably attained within the unknowns of a race.

Is it calls like this which cost Merc ultimately? Or is every team like this?

I feel like Merc are purposefully exaggerating the extent of their issue and the impact it actually had on performance in order to excuse away why they were slower than Ferrari after saying they wouldn't be. Should we take Merc's word on things, they should have had nearly race-winning pace, and that just doesn't seem realistic. Not to mention that even Lewis was more pessimistic about their chances against Ferrari before the race, all while they secretly had Red Bull-challenging pace? Nah.

[CaribouBread]

I feel like Merc are purposefully exaggerating the extent of their issue and the impact it actually had on performance in order to excuse away why they were slower than Ferrari after saying they wouldn't be. Should we take Merc's word on things, they should have had nearly race-winning pace, and that just doesn't seem realistic. Not to mention that even Lewis was more pessimistic about their chances against Ferrari before the race, all while they secretly had Red Bull-challenging pace? Nah.

I do think they're exaggerating a bit and a bit of it is also their flawed simulations which seems to be wrong about cooling so that's going to take some time away, but still even in their most ideal scenario they don't claim to have RedBull pace, just a smidge faster than Ferrari. Ferrari was ~ 4 tenths (ignoring Ferrari issues for simple comparison) behind RBR and Mercs were ~ 4 tenths behind Ferrari. IF the engine deficit was around 4 tenths like they claim and that allows them to run their tyres better they still would just be a bit ahead of Ferrari, even in their own estimates.

[Matt2725]

merc still dont know why is car overheating and they were slower max 0.3sec, even with everything OK they cant attack Newey.
Obviously Lewis knew why he switch to ferrari.

After watching the above debrief video, I wonder why Merc do not have a larger tolerance than 1 to 2 degrees? (5-8 min of the video) That seems to unreasonable a tolerance with the variables that inevitably affect most any race. Certainly the amount of air reaching one car following another must be assumed can/could/will occur, and certainly Merc knew their pace going into the race was likely not within the top 2 places, and if falling out 1 degree causes a 2 to 3 tenths loss in time, it just seems an unwise engineering exercise to make tolerances that tight with a variance that is so costly. It doesn’t seem reasonable is what I’m saying — a set up for failure kinda thing — whereby it’s so impractical of a value the perfection required to carry out the task simply cannot be reasonably attained within the unknowns of a race.

Is it calls like this which cost Merc ultimately? Or is every team like this?

I feel like Merc are purposefully exaggerating the extent of their issue and the impact it actually had on performance in order to excuse away why they were slower than Ferrari after saying they wouldn't be. Should we take Merc's word on things, they should have had nearly race-winning pace, and that just doesn't seem realistic. Not to mention that even Lewis was more pessimistic about their chances against Ferrari before the race, all while they secretly had Red Bull-challenging pace? Nah.

I don't see what purpose it would serve to outright lie like that, as they'd be found out in short order.

[Formula 1 fan]

Can anyone explain me, Mercedes bring brand new rear wing, i saw yesterday images and comments that Mercedes bring completely brand new rear wing, and now that is not in this list of upgrades, how is that possible?

[dren]

One hour to go.

[Fluido]

merc still dont know why is car overheating and they were slower max 0.3sec, even with everything OK they cant attack Newey.
Obviously Lewis knew why he switch to ferrari.

After watching the above debrief video, I wonder why Merc do not have a larger tolerance than 1 to 2 degrees? (5-8 min of the video) That seems to unreasonable a tolerance with the variables that inevitably affect most any race. Certainly the amount of air reaching one car following another must be assumed can/could/will occur, and certainly Merc knew their pace going into the race was likely not within the top 2 places, and if falling out 1 degree causes a 2 to 3 tenths loss in time, it just seems an unwise engineering exercise to make tolerances that tight with a variance that is so costly. It doesn’t seem reasonable is what I’m saying — a set up for failure kinda thing — whereby it’s so impractical of a value the perfection required to carry out the task simply cannot be reasonably attained within the unknowns of a race.

Is it calls like this which cost Merc ultimately? Or is every team like this?

There is not difference for engine if its 1 or 2 Celsius degrees up or down.
If their simulation software show only 1 or 2 degrees from real temperature, that is very good software because, fluid dynamics, heat transfer, thermodynamics are very very complex stuff. Results are not 100% correct.

[organic]

Can anyone explain me, Mercedes bring brand new rear wing, i saw yesterday images and comments that Mercedes bring completely brand new rear wing, and now that is not in this list of upgrades, how is that possible?

Because the wing is almost exactly the same as their monza/vegas 2023 spec. A few modifications

[Formula 1 fan]

Can anyone explain me, Mercedes bring brand new rear wing, i saw yesterday images and comments that Mercedes bring completely brand new rear wing, and now that is not in this list of upgrades, how is that possible?

Because the wing is almost exactly the same as their monza/vegas 2023 spec. A few modifications

Okay, so this rear wing from eysterday images is from 2023, but different rear wing compare to Bahrain race wing last week?

[dren]

No, yes next week's wing is last week's 2023 image from the one today, no?

[kenshi_blind]

lol this whole no new wing thing is getting silly, the wing is a new wing, what is it with some here always trying to push agendas? it has modifications all over so it's a new wing ...that much should be obvious

[vanburin]

lol this whole no new wing thing is getting silly, the wing is a new wing, what is it with some here always trying to push agendas? it has modifications all over so it's a new wing ...that much should be obvious

There's also an extensive discussion on it in the W15 car thread, which makes much more sense.

Anywho, soft tyre runs a plenty right now. Toto having a bit of a wry smile there while Russell was on his quick lap.

1:29.6 was the fastest FP1 time from last year.

[hudnut]

I love listening to James Vowles on the pit wall. He gets asked technical questions, and he gives onest, straightforward and easily understood technical answers.

[CaribouBread]

Ferrari is a debris magnet universal sabotage

[LetHimTrough]

Leclerc's time being on a 5 laps old soft, doesn't look bad