2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Jdn1327
Jdn1327
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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CHT wrote:
05 Mar 2024, 10:46
Jdn1327 wrote:
05 Mar 2024, 10:39
214270 wrote:
04 Mar 2024, 14:46
Jos has previously used Merc for leverage against Rb; I’m not convinced this is any different. Doubt anything will come of this
There is the question of money as well. What is Max's salary now? $55 million or so? Redbull are a very lucrative brand but Max is worth a lot more than this. That deal for 2028 was signed in 2021 as a single DWC. he is now a 3 time champ. So yeah if Mercedes offered him a mega deal like Ferrari offered Lewis...im sure he would consider it. Cos to be fair at $55 million...Redbull are getting him at a bargain price.
Drivers contract should include a performance bonus that is tagged to the result. I am sure F1 driver is not 100% drawn to salary only. i reckon LH will be willing to drive for free if someone can guarantee him a car that can win the 8WDC.
I sure he would but these guys are humans. And at the end of it all it's about the money. Ferrari are paying Lewis that amount because of his marketability. Mercedes would see the same potential in Max if he came over. Mercedes have a car sales division to worry about as well. How many cars would Max sell if it had his signature 'MV33' on a performance model for example. Money is a big motivator here. Yeah I know they both want to win...but if the moves don't work out and they lose...they'd want to collect a big paycheck for it as well.

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Jambier
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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stonehenge wrote:
04 Mar 2024, 14:26
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ll-streit/
Will Verstappen join Mercedes?

Lewis Hamilton's move to Ferrari has left a vacancy at Mercedes. The hottest candidate at the moment is Max Verstappen. Despite a Red Bull contract until 2028, the Horner affair could open the door to the outside world.

At first, it all sounds quite unlikely. Max Verstappen has a valid contract with Red Bull until 2028 and the Dutchman is in the best car. The season opener in Bahrain confirmed that. Why should the world champion leave this comfort zone?

There will be a vacancy at Mercedes in 2025 due to Lewis Hamilton's move to Ferrari. The contracts of 13 of the 20 drivers in the current field expire at the end of the year. All of them are keen on the open Mercedes cockpit. Mercedes would also have access to super talent Andrea Kimi Antonelli, and they could also persuade Formula 1 retiree Sebastian Vettel to make a comeback.

But at the moment, Max Verstappen is the hottest candidate for the Mercedes seat alongside George Russell. Not possible, you say? Anything goes in Formula 1. More and more evidence suggests that the sensational transfer could happen. And the affair surrounding Christian Horner is the lever for it. Or a welcome occasion.

Like Schumacher to Ferrari

Red Bull Sport boss Helmut Marko is concerned that the turmoil in the team could drive away not only Verstappen, but also star designer Adrian Newey and future engine partner Ford. Team boss Horner apparently believes that things can be done without his key figures. McLaren boss Ron Dennis once believed the same in the delusion of too much success. Until he successively lost constructor John Barnard, Alain Prost and Ayrton Senna.

Mercedes neither confirmed nor denied the Verstappen question. Toto Wolff responded after the Bahrain GP with a general statement: "The fastest drivers always want to be in the fastest car. And Red Bull currently has the fastest car."

The same was said of Michael Schumacher in 1995. And yet he went to Ferrari. Because he was convinced that a continuation of the Benetton winning streak would not make him any bigger. Only if he became world champion with several teams, especially with such a brilliant brand as Ferrari, which had not won anything for so long, would that be the step to true greatness. What Ferrari once was for Schumacher, Mercedes might be for Verstappen.

The Horner case as a means to an end

Another indication of a future at Mercedes is the timing of events. The Horner case has been simmering within the company since December. Why did the accusations against the Red Bull team boss for alleged inappropriate behavior towards a female employee come to light exactly four days after the Hamilton transfer became known? And why did a Dutch newspaper come forward twice with details of the story?

The Verstappen clan denies having anything to do with the anonymously circulated screenshots that allegedly show the chat history between Horner and the employee in question. In the same breath, however, he says that the team boss is no longer acceptable in his position. Knowing full well that the Thai Red Bull faction will play Horner's patron saint to the bitter end.

In this case, Toto Wolff is calling for the greatest possible transparency and a clear commitment to today's standard compliance rules, thereby automatically adding fuel to the fire. Anyone in his situation would do that because it increases the pressure. In Formula 1, everyone is their own boss, and having Verstappen or not having him can make the difference between winning and losing.

What will Alonso do?

It is not yet clear what is driving Verstappen's entourage to force Horner out of office. It must be more than just some marketing rights that are denied to the champion at Red Bull, but which he could get at Mercedes. Also more than a lack of respect, if Horner really believes he can win the title with any driver.

It could also be that Verstappen's management wants to bring the fastest driver of our time to Mercedes anyway, because there he can become a superhero and an ambassador for a brand that is one of the ten most important in the world. And because he perhaps has more confidence in Mercedes for the new engine formula from 2026 than his own engine project RB Powertrains. The Horner case would then only be a means to an end. Regardless of the outcome.

If Verstappen were to leave Red Bull for Mercedes, the most attractive cockpit in sporting terms would become available at Red Bull. And all those who are still eyeing the vacancy at Mercedes will switch their chips to Red Bull. Fernando Alonso, whose manager Flavio Briatore is on equally good terms with Wolff and Horner, is at the top of the list. The Spaniard may not officially want to make a fundamental decision about his future for a few weeks, but with these options the answer should be pretty clear.

Everyone else will have to wait until the top spots are filled. Like Carlos Sainz and Nico Hülkenberg, they can only keep themselves in the conversation through strong performances. Sebastian Vettel explained in an interview with the Neue Zürcher Zeitung that a comeback is not an urgent issue and that he still has time at the age of 36. In this case, waiting is the wrong approach.

I would like to see that.
I don’t think it will happen, I think Max will end F1 end of 2025 with 5 titles

It is the best scenario for him, leave with a title in 2025.

In other hand to 1 year at Mercedes could be a great challenge as well, indeed he has nothing more to prove at Red Bull and he doesn’t chase title record

CHT
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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LH has demonstrated that no matter how good you are as a driver, you cannot win a championship without a decent car and team support
I have heard the guys at Skysports saying Merc can produce a better engine for 2026, so Max has to think about the future.
But that is just conjecture, as I remember Ron Denis once said RBR is just a drink company.

With the RB20, it is pretty clear that the team and Max are likely to win 4xWDC this year and possibly the 5th next year.
As the saying goes, 1 bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush, so it is very unlikely that Max will leave RBR anytime before 2025.
By that time, things within RBR will be much clearer. If this saga really get out of hand, for sure CH will step down, not Max leaving RBR.

Perhaps Merc will sign a driver like Alonso for a 1 to 2-year contract to make the seat available for Max in 2027.

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Jambier
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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CHT wrote:
06 Mar 2024, 00:35

With the RB20, it is pretty clear that the team and Max are likely to win 4xWDC this year and possibly the 5th next year.
As the saying goes, 1 bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush, so it is very unlikely that Max will leave RBR anytime before 2025.
By that time, things within RBR will be much clearer. If this saga really get out of hand, for sure CH will step down, not Max leaving RBR.

Perhaps Merc will sign a driver like Alonso for a 1 to 2-year contract to make the seat available for Max in 2027.
2024 he will got the title, but 2025 is still far, and a team can be closer... if he leave RBR, it is very possible that RBR will not win 2025.

But yes, If I were toto:

- I'll chase Max
- I'll keep Antonelli in a Williams
- If no Max, I would take ALO for 1 or 2 season Max as a transition

Jdn1327
Jdn1327
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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How were Mercedes top speed in fp2? I know it's not representative but would be cool to see

dialtone
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Jdn1327 wrote:
07 Mar 2024, 18:54
How were Mercedes top speed in fp2? I know it's not representative but would be cool to see
Image

About in line with RBR, a bit higher than Ferrari.

Hammerfist
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Lewis about to get blanked in Jeddah by Georges. . Georges has outperformed him in both years handily and it ain’t looking any different this year. Really doesn’t like this track at all. George p2 looking very competitive in one lap but verstappens long runs looking untouchable once again.

Hammerfist
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Jambier wrote:
06 Mar 2024, 12:13
CHT wrote:
06 Mar 2024, 00:35

With the RB20, it is pretty clear that the team and Max are likely to win 4xWDC this year and possibly the 5th next year.
As the saying goes, 1 bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush, so it is very unlikely that Max will leave RBR anytime before 2025.
By that time, things within RBR will be much clearer. If this saga really get out of hand, for sure CH will step down, not Max leaving RBR.

Perhaps Merc will sign a driver like Alonso for a 1 to 2-year contract to make the seat available for Max in 2027.
2024 he will got the title, but 2025 is still far, and a team can be closer... if he leave RBR, it is very possible that RBR will not win 2025.

But yes, If I were toto:

- I'll chase Max
- I'll keep Antonelli in a Williams
- If no Max, I would take ALO for 1 or 2 season Max as a transition
Would verstappen sacrifice a title shot in 25’ by going to Mercedes if he is sure Mercedes will be good in 26’ and the opportunity might be there to rack up multiple titles in the next regulations. Opposed to staying at Redbull when only 2 more titles are possible.

Luscion
Luscion
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Joined: 13 Feb 2023, 01:37

Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Hammerfist wrote:
07 Mar 2024, 20:14
Lewis about to get blanked in Jeddah by Georges. . Georges has outperformed him in both years handily and it ain’t looking any different this year. Really doesn’t like this track at all. George p2 looking very competitive in one lap but verstappens long runs looking untouchable once again.
They were on two completely different setups to see which one was better, Shovlin, Lewis and Toto said this, George's car was stable and Lewis' rear end was all over the place and he didnt have confidence in the car. Also George has not outperformed him in both years, Lewis scored the majority of the points last season, got the most podiums of the two and Merc's only pole position, they were also even on the quali head to head at the end of the season

Alex_Z
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Joined: 05 Mar 2023, 00:16

Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Here we go with the setup excuses once again. Lewis has lost one-lap pace since 2021; it's understandable as he's becoming older, but the constant rationalisation regarding setup changes or setup being biased towards the race is tiring and insulting towards George IMO. I still think he's the dogs bollocks in the race but come on man lol.

Hammerfist
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Luscion wrote:
07 Mar 2024, 21:54
Hammerfist wrote:
07 Mar 2024, 20:14
Lewis about to get blanked in Jeddah by Georges. . Georges has outperformed him in both years handily and it ain’t looking any different this year. Really doesn’t like this track at all. George p2 looking very competitive in one lap but verstappens long runs looking untouchable once again.
They were on two completely different setups to see which one was better, Shovlin, Lewis and Toto said this, George's car was stable and Lewis' rear end was all over the place and he didnt have confidence in the car. Also George has not outperformed him in both years, Lewis scored the majority of the points last season, got the most podiums of the two and Merc's only pole position, they were also even on the quali head to head at the end of the season
I'm talking about this track specifically. He has been outperformed both in 22 and 23 and it's been huge margins, similar to today. I don't want to hear setup issues honestly. In 17-21' Merc used to give the drivers setups to drive and they couldn't veer from it. Let's go back to that please.

Hammerfist
Hammerfist
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Joined: 06 Apr 2017, 04:18

Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Alex_Z wrote:
07 Mar 2024, 22:16
Here we go with the setup excuses once again. Lewis has lost one-lap pace since 2021; it's understandable as he's becoming older, but the constant rationalisation regarding setup changes or setup being biased towards the race is tiring and insulting towards George IMO. I still think he's the dogs bollocks in the race but come on man lol.
YEah it's always tough for these older sportsmen to realize they are on the downside. He has clearly lost some one lap pace ability. Leclerc next year is going to put an exclamation point to that I feel.

Luscion
Luscion
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Joined: 13 Feb 2023, 01:37

Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Alex_Z wrote:
07 Mar 2024, 22:16
Here we go with the setup excuses once again. Lewis has lost one-lap pace since 2021; it's understandable as he's becoming older, but the constant rationalisation regarding setup changes or setup being biased towards the race is tiring and insulting towards George IMO. I still think he's the dogs bollocks in the race but come on man lol.
George, Shovlin, Lewis and Toto have all said they were on different set ups and you could see lewis losing the rear of the car yet thats not enough for people to believe them

McMika98
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Luscion wrote:
07 Mar 2024, 22:38
Alex_Z wrote:
07 Mar 2024, 22:16
Here we go with the setup excuses once again. Lewis has lost one-lap pace since 2021; it's understandable as he's becoming older, but the constant rationalisation regarding setup changes or setup being biased towards the race is tiring and insulting towards George IMO. I still think he's the dogs bollocks in the race but come on man lol.
George, Shovlin, Lewis and Toto have all said they were on different set ups and you could see lewis losing the rear of the car yet thats not enough for people to believe them
Further proof that Hamilton can't handle an oversteery setup with a loose rear and like his pal Alonso prefers understeer balance. Lucky he did not become Max's team mate, imagine getting exposed like Checo.

mkay
mkay
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Hammerfist wrote:
07 Mar 2024, 22:26
Luscion wrote:
07 Mar 2024, 21:54
Hammerfist wrote:
07 Mar 2024, 20:14
Lewis about to get blanked in Jeddah by Georges. . Georges has outperformed him in both years handily and it ain’t looking any different this year. Really doesn’t like this track at all. George p2 looking very competitive in one lap but verstappens long runs looking untouchable once again.
They were on two completely different setups to see which one was better, Shovlin, Lewis and Toto said this, George's car was stable and Lewis' rear end was all over the place and he didnt have confidence in the car. Also George has not outperformed him in both years, Lewis scored the majority of the points last season, got the most podiums of the two and Merc's only pole position, they were also even on the quali head to head at the end of the season
I'm talking about this track specifically. He has been outperformed both in 22 and 23 and it's been huge margins, similar to today. I don't want to hear setup issues honestly. In 17-21' Merc used to give the drivers setups to drive and they couldn't veer from it. Let's go back to that please.
Hamilton was the faster Merc in 2022 until they put him on an experimental setup in FP3, which ruined his qualifying and race.

Agreed about 2023, though Lewis was faster in the race (only finished 5 seconds back despite starting 5 or 6 positions behind).