Mercedes W15

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
saviour stivala
saviour stivala
50
Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 12:54

Re: Mercedes W15

Post

"Tis well enough for a servant to be bred at an university but the education is a little to pedantic for gentleman, William Congrave".

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
559
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Mercedes W15

Post

nicolas wrote: ↑
08 Mar 2024, 11:48
https://ibb.co/Njyyx4z
The mechanism is not different, it is very similar.
The cylinder alone is not the mechanism my friend. :wink:
πŸ–οΈβœŒοΈβ˜οΈπŸ‘€πŸ‘ŒβœοΈπŸŽπŸ†πŸ™

Racing Green in 2028

Tzk
Tzk
34
Joined: 28 Jul 2018, 12:49

Re: Mercedes W15

Post

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑
09 Mar 2024, 12:00
The cylinder alone is not the mechanism my friend. :wink:
Huh? The basic prinpicle and motion are the same. Just the parts are looking a bit differently. So yes: basically the same as last year, but no: freshly made and redesigned parts.

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
559
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Mercedes W15

Post

Tzk wrote: ↑
09 Mar 2024, 13:56
PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑
09 Mar 2024, 12:00
The cylinder alone is not the mechanism my friend. :wink:
Huh? The basic prinpicle and motion are the same. Just the parts are looking a bit differently. So yes: basically the same as last year, but no: freshly made and redesigned parts.
So all F1 wheel hubs are the same then? Since the principle of motion is the same and the parts only look a bit different? Gotchya! Hehe
πŸ–οΈβœŒοΈβ˜οΈπŸ‘€πŸ‘ŒβœοΈπŸŽπŸ†πŸ™

Racing Green in 2028

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
559
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Mercedes W15

Post

So apparently the car still bounces harshly. Lewis points out the rear is the problem. Now I'm looking at the pushrod and it's just crazy acute the angle it makes. Mercedes still haven't quite figured out how to make good rear suspensions.
πŸ–οΈβœŒοΈβ˜οΈπŸ‘€πŸ‘ŒβœοΈπŸŽπŸ†πŸ™

Racing Green in 2028

maygun
maygun
3
Joined: 20 Mar 2023, 14:31

Re: Mercedes W15

Post

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑
09 Mar 2024, 16:29
So apparently the car still bounces harshly. Lewis points out the rear is the problem. Now I'm looking at the pushrod and it's just crazy acute the angle it makes. Mercedes still haven't quite figured out how to make good rear suspensions.
Aston Martin looks way better than Merc in terms of jumping, not sure if the issue is just suspension.

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
559
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Mercedes W15

Post

Car still not an all rounder. Mercedes still haven't quite cracked the new code since the floor edges were cut in 2021. Funadmental suspension and floor aero issues since then. They always used bandaids to get around their deficiencies in these areas!
πŸ–οΈβœŒοΈβ˜οΈπŸ‘€πŸ‘ŒβœοΈπŸŽπŸ†πŸ™

Racing Green in 2028

Matt2725
Matt2725
9
Joined: 02 Mar 2023, 13:12

Re: Mercedes W15

Post

Exactly the same as last year. Absolutely abysmal performance in high speed cornering.
They're really going to need to get on top of that and sharp.

Mtshali_Motorsport
Mtshali_Motorsport
4
Joined: 28 Jan 2023, 13:38

Re: Mercedes W15

Post

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑
09 Mar 2024, 20:47
Car still not an all rounder. Mercedes still haven't quite cracked the new code since the floor edges were cut in 2021. Funadmental suspension and floor aero issues since then. They always used bandaids to get around their deficiencies in these areas!
Hence why Russell and co were pleading for active suspension in 2022. Thanks to the ban of utilizing hydraulic actuation that really put a number on them for sure

djones
djones
20
Joined: 17 Mar 2005, 15:01

Re: Mercedes W15

Post

Hamilton in an interview essentially said it’s 3 years running now they have a garbage car that is not following other successful concepts.

The move to Ferrari looks smarter by the day.

f1jcw
f1jcw
17
Joined: 21 Feb 2019, 21:15

Re: Mercedes W15

Post

Mtshali_Motorsport wrote: ↑
09 Mar 2024, 23:19
PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑
09 Mar 2024, 20:47
Car still not an all rounder. Mercedes still haven't quite cracked the new code since the floor edges were cut in 2021. Funadmental suspension and floor aero issues since then. They always used bandaids to get around their deficiencies in these areas!
Hence why Russell and co were pleading for active suspension in 2022. Thanks to the ban of utilizing hydraulic actuation that really put a number on them for sure
Was the ban of hydraulic suspension due to cost cutting or to reign in Mercedes.

Farnborough
Farnborough
100
Joined: 18 Mar 2023, 14:15

Re: Mercedes W15

Post

f1jcw wrote: ↑
10 Mar 2024, 14:03
Mtshali_Motorsport wrote: ↑
09 Mar 2024, 23:19
PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑
09 Mar 2024, 20:47
Car still not an all rounder. Mercedes still haven't quite cracked the new code since the floor edges were cut in 2021. Funadmental suspension and floor aero issues since then. They always used bandaids to get around their deficiencies in these areas!
Hence why Russell and co were pleading for active suspension in 2022. Thanks to the ban of utilizing hydraulic actuation that really put a number on them for sure
Was the ban of hydraulic suspension due to cost cutting or to reign in Mercedes.
If they keep making a floor, this being their third in a row on W15, that gives very peaky accumilation curve, and particularly the need to only be so low to ground, then mitigation measures such as the call for various suspension system, will look logical.
The other teams have figured it out, within these rules, MB needs to understand what they've made in this iteration to get anywhere.

Venturiation
Venturiation
98
Joined: 04 Jan 2023, 19:48

Re: Mercedes W15

Post

Mercedes suspects a "fundamental problem" affecting the car's performance in high-speed corners after the Saudi Arabia race.

There is a possibility that this is a design issue rather than a settings issue. Currently, all research is focused on this.




The design problem is still there since W13
It could mean the older car that was faster in the simulator is indeed faster but they have missed something for 3 consecutive years
First it was ride height, sidepods , suspensions floor and now what?

DoctorRadio
DoctorRadio
4
Joined: 11 Apr 2021, 16:43

Re: Mercedes W15

Post

Venturiation wrote: ↑
10 Mar 2024, 15:12
Mercedes suspects a "fundamental problem" affecting the car's performance in high-speed corners after the Saudi Arabia race.

There is a possibility that this is a design issue rather than a settings issue. Currently, all research is focused on this.




The design problem is still there since W13
It could mean the older car that was faster in the simulator is indeed faster but they have missed something for 3 consecutive years
First it was ride height, sidepods , suspensions floor and now what?
The greatness of Mercedes F1 technical team is a thing of the past and this keeps showing under these regs.
I wonder if this β€œfundamental problem” has anything to do with their peculiar rear push rod.

Farnborough
Farnborough
100
Joined: 18 Mar 2023, 14:15

Re: Mercedes W15

Post

DoctorRadio wrote: ↑
10 Mar 2024, 15:55
Venturiation wrote: ↑
10 Mar 2024, 15:12
Mercedes suspects a "fundamental problem" affecting the car's performance in high-speed corners after the Saudi Arabia race.

There is a possibility that this is a design issue rather than a settings issue. Currently, all research is focused on this.




The design problem is still there since W13
It could mean the older car that was faster in the simulator is indeed faster but they have missed something for 3 consecutive years
First it was ride height, sidepods , suspensions floor and now what?
The greatness of Mercedes F1 technical team is a thing of the past and this keeps showing under these regs.
I wonder if this β€œfundamental problem” has anything to do with their peculiar rear push rod.
It looks competent in design, high leverage and likely to incorporate need for careful optimisation of load path sizing, more for durability than anything else.
We've not seen detail image of arrangement hidden under rear covers to make decent comments in accurate assessment, but unless they say specifically that from their knowledge, then it doesn't appear to be root cause.
There's plenty of experience with highly loaded suspension design in F1 and other fields to cover this off in my view.

They appear to have lost control of floor understanding/simulations/reality as that repeating cycle into this W15 shouldn't happen.

This rear suspension doesn't appear to be getting into problem within AM chassis and aero architecture, also pointing to something they are struggling with in their own design. More images of W15 details would be welcome in this thread to further discussion.