This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Clearly there is a high speed correlation issue, I'm guessing the bouncing is causing the lack of downforce and a problem with the floor is causing the bouncing.
Venturi floor can experience the same phenomena in low ride height, but there are some key differences. Typical choke of the floor is the most extreme case, when the expansion after the throat is too big and the flow can't stay attached to the Venturi tunnel roof. It is reported by some insiders that no team in 2022 had this happen alone and cause porpoising, it was typically multiple factors that caused this to occur.
Due to the movement of the car and floor, bumps and kerbs on track and overall flow condition changes at different parts of the track, what happend most often was having an initial external influence cause the initial separation somewhere behind the floor throat.
Thanks, ah so the separation is after the throat chokes, now I understand
And yes, the obvious fixes cost performance don't they. So what has Adrian done??
And yes, the obvious fixes cost performance don't they. So what has Adrian done??
RB has high tunnels to prevent outright choking and many small features that probably cause the pressure distribution to change a lot when car is at its lowest. This different distribution is probably preventing 99% of the phenomena that can trigger bouncing from even happening.
RB has high tunnels to prevent outright choking and many small features that probably cause the pressure distribution to change a lot when car is at its lowest. This different distribution is probably preventing 99% of the phenomena that can trigger bouncing from even happening.
i remember cranegate, lol. I suppose all the teams must have modelled it, but it depends on the suspension and a lot of small flows as you say. I get the feeling Toto is quite cross about the gap, with all that info back in 2022.
I have felt that Mercedes is really an "engine team" who are just bang average with chassis (DAS was an exception). Their glory years 2014-2021 was fundamentally engine dominance, wasn't it ? The first time they were put under pressure to get their chassis right, 3 yrs on, they haven't mastered ground effect. McLaren has, Ferrari has. Aston Martin has (either they struck gold or they admitted defeat and used Fallows to create an RB18 copy). It doesn't seem to make a difference whether Elliot or Allison, they simply can't get their floor right.
(i) Toto gleefully jumped into the boxing ring and armtwisted FIA into bringing in TD039, upon the advice of his engineers. What happened next ? Redbull got around it straightaway, Ferrari took some time, AstonMartin struggled, McLaren incorporated it into their mega update. Mercedes gained nothing.
(ii) they got tricked into thinking Brazil 2022 was their confirmation compass that told them they were on the right track, and wasted an additional year. Brazil 2022 was RedBull getting it wrong (like singapore 2023) rather than Merc getting it right. Anyway, had they 'understood' it like Mclaren did, they would've simply fielded the 2022 car until 2023 summer break and come up with a mega update in the middle of 2023, like Mclaren did.
Both of the above, stem from lack of depth in understanding about 'ground effect downforce', today they have to resort to previous-era like push-pull choices with wings alone, in deciding how to optimize the opposing requirements of downforce and top speed. My guess is they are in the zone where the task is to measure 235ml, but they have only containers with 1000, 500, 250 and 100 ml capacities.
Only RedBull, McLaren and Ferrari seem to have 'understood' ground effect, Redbull being the most clever of them, who has understood it to such detail that that not a single change they are making to the car is having drawbacks. It's surgical.
They suffered there but it was the setup compromise they chose. They ran their low downforce RW (Vegas/Monza) whilst others ran mid-low (spa) level downforce
They suffered there but it was the setup compromise they chose. They ran their low downforce RW (Vegas/Monza) whilst others ran mid-low (spa) level downforce
They did try a more loaded rear wing on Hamilton's car, and whilst it was better through sector 1, the losses on the straight weren't worth it for them allegedly.
Well, still the car is in the loop of F1.5
It does not really make sense to speak about RedBull, but even though Ferrari has the current upper hand this can vanish once tire wear is present. We had a race on tires you could run the whole race distance like in Bridgestone days.
Any car is going to look worse in high speed parts if you're trying to follow closely through another car's wake.
Not saying the Merc isn't weak here, it's just this isn't the best demonstration of it.
Wasnt this the reason for the whole rule update?
Now we are are watching a fight for place 11 by 4 cars who cant overtake one car.
The formula is so messed up just slow everyone down and charge battery and they cant pass with drs gimmicks
but at the same time, the W15 has its advantages, and which are almost not talked about, first of all, low drag, for example the fact that the Mercedes were very fast in S2 and S3, they were also fast in Bahrain in S1 and S3. Therefore, they now need to find additional downforce, and not become better than McLaren in this regard, but be on par and then the W15 will become a threat to Ferrari and RB
