2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Hammerfist]

Oh dear god not again, Hamilton must be a lab scientist he's done that many experiments according to his fans.

The experiment myth was busted by both Russell & Shovlin in 2022, George beat him fair & square.

The facts are both drivers were trying things in 2022, Hamilton had to try more extreme setups out of necessity because Russell had a better handle on the car and was outperforming him, this is natural in F1 and nothing unique to Hamilton or Mercedes.

Hamilton didn’t get outperformed in 22. He outqualified russell and was faster in the races. Russell benefited from multiple safety cars situations to finish in front when he was going to finish behind. Hamilton was outscored that season but he was the better driver overall and he proved it in 23. This season it looks like Russell is outperforming him so far but Lewis always starts out slowly. Like I said before let’s see what it looks like after a few races. But grizzleboy made a great point about ham not getting full support from the team because he is departing to Ferrari. That was always going to be the case.

Yes he did, Russell had more highs and less extreme lows, he was more consistent over the course of the season.

No, he didn't make a great point, you think Hamilton is the only driver in history to leave a team? If we want to go down that line then McLaren clearly favoured Hamilton in 2007 so his victory over Alonso doesn't count.

No he did not. If you’re getting outqualified and getting dropped in the races regularly you didn’t outperform anyone. You got lucky and scored points that you shouldn’t have. He won Brazil because max hit Lewis in the first lap. But Lewis always comes back usually. If not this year I think he will surprise next year. We shall see.

[JordanMugen]

Right back to square one!!

The are no longer a top team. Sorry Toto.

Mercedes are tied with Alpine for least improvement, only -0.2s (using one step softer tyres, Albert Park qualification rounds). If Mercedes had improved at the rate of McLaren (-1.8s), Sauber (-1.3s) or RB (-1.3s), then Russell would have been on pole position easily as Red Bull only improved by -0.8s and Ferrari by only -1.0s.

What strategies did Toto use to ensure the W15 would be developed well by the right technical structure?

[Matt2725]

Right back to square one!!

The are no longer a top team. Sorry Toto.

Mercedes are tied with Alpine for least improvement, only -0.2s (using one step softer tyres, Albert Park qualification rounds). If Mercedes had improved at the rate of McLaren (-1.8s), Sauber (-1.3s) or RB (-1.3s), then Russell would have been on pole position easily as Red Bull only improved by -0.8s and Ferrari by only -1.0s.

What strategies did Toto use to ensure the W15 would be developed well by the right technical structure?

Worth noting, McLaren were nowhere until their upgrades later on in the first half of the season. Their jump wouldn't be so pronounced compared to last year otherwise.

Yeah the car isn't great at all and the drivers aren't the problem as you rightly pointed out earlier. I'm not sure what they do as unless there isn't a huge change on the chassis side in 2026, then it seems better to consolidate what you have, and then do nothing but focus on 2026 next year.

[Il Leone]

Hamilton didn’t get outperformed in 22. He outqualified russell and was faster in the races. Russell benefited from multiple safety cars situations to finish in front when he was going to finish behind. Hamilton was outscored that season but he was the better driver overall and he proved it in 23. This season it looks like Russell is outperforming him so far but Lewis always starts out slowly. Like I said before let’s see what it looks like after a few races. But grizzleboy made a great point about ham not getting full support from the team because he is departing to Ferrari. That was always going to be the case.

Yes he did, Russell had more highs and less extreme lows, he was more consistent over the course of the season.

No, he didn't make a great point, you think Hamilton is the only driver in history to leave a team? If we want to go down that line then McLaren clearly favoured Hamilton in 2007 so his victory over Alonso doesn't count.

No he did not. If you’re getting outqualified and getting dropped in the races regularly you didn’t outperform anyone. You got lucky and scored points that you shouldn’t have. He won Brazil because max hit Lewis in the first lap. But Lewis always comes back usually. If not this year I think he will surprise next year. We shall see.

Stop inventing, Russell got off to a flying start whilst Hamilton was struggling in the midfield.

As for Brazil, again, stop inventing, Russell drove brilliantly all weekend, put half a second on Lewis in qualifying and Lewis had no answer in both the sprint and the main race.

[Venturiation]

The team is basically back where it was in 2010 and 2011 when it had a shoe string budget and bare-bones staffing. Fith fastest. Right back to square one!!

The are no longer a top team. Sorry Toto.

They made the most of an advantage that was baked in for three seasons and rode the wave until many of the real decision makers had moved on. Wolff is still the most formidable politician in the paddock but Mercedes are only average on the engineering side now, especially considering their advantage on infrastructure and status as a works team.

Where do they go from here? A lot of hope was placed in the Allison basket but it hasn't produced fruit yet.

What kills me is that this car is supposed to be a brand new concept but it has almost the same underlying flaws as the zero pod concept. It’s like a joke. They should have kept the zero pod and continue to build on it. Copying never really works in f1. This is just another example.

Zeropods was never the problem

[Venturiation]

Yes he did, Russell had more highs and less extreme lows, he was more consistent over the course of the season.

No, he didn't make a great point, you think Hamilton is the only driver in history to leave a team? If we want to go down that line then McLaren clearly favoured Hamilton in 2007 so his victory over Alonso doesn't count.

No he did not. If you’re getting outqualified and getting dropped in the races regularly you didn’t outperform anyone. You got lucky and scored points that you shouldn’t have. He won Brazil because max hit Lewis in the first lap. But Lewis always comes back usually. If not this year I think he will surprise next year. We shall see.

Stop inventing, Russell got off to a flying start whilst Hamilton was struggling in the midfield.

As for Brazil, again, stop inventing, Russell drove brilliantly all weekend, put half a second on Lewis in qualifying and Lewis had no answer in both the sprint and the main race.

Stop inventing russel is inferior to hamilton in every aspect

[Il Leone]

No he did not. If you’re getting outqualified and getting dropped in the races regularly you didn’t outperform anyone. You got lucky and scored points that you shouldn’t have. He won Brazil because max hit Lewis in the first lap. But Lewis always comes back usually. If not this year I think he will surprise next year. We shall see.

Stop inventing, Russell got off to a flying start whilst Hamilton was struggling in the midfield.

As for Brazil, again, stop inventing, Russell drove brilliantly all weekend, put half a second on Lewis in qualifying and Lewis had no answer in both the sprint and the main race.

Stop inventing russel is inferior to hamilton in every aspect

It's really looking that way, 6-0 tomorrow and counting.

[Zxeros]

Toto is lucky to still have a job, what a disastarous job he has done.

[Il Leone]

Toto is lucky to still have a job, what a disastarous job he has done.

But then in the last era he was labeled a genius.

[Matt2725]

No he did not. If you’re getting outqualified and getting dropped in the races regularly you didn’t outperform anyone. You got lucky and scored points that you shouldn’t have. He won Brazil because max hit Lewis in the first lap. But Lewis always comes back usually. If not this year I think he will surprise next year. We shall see.

Stop inventing, Russell got off to a flying start whilst Hamilton was struggling in the midfield.

As for Brazil, again, stop inventing, Russell drove brilliantly all weekend, put half a second on Lewis in qualifying and Lewis had no answer in both the sprint and the main race.

Stop inventing russel is inferior to hamilton in every aspect

The latest stats and even Lewis himself says otherwise.

[Il Leone]

Stop inventing, Russell got off to a flying start whilst Hamilton was struggling in the midfield.

As for Brazil, again, stop inventing, Russell drove brilliantly all weekend, put half a second on Lewis in qualifying and Lewis had no answer in both the sprint and the main race.

Stop inventing russel is inferior to hamilton in every aspect

The latest stats and even Lewis himself says otherwise.

Exactly, Hamilton has admitted Russell is doing better this season.

Maybe he has finally hit the cliff? We shall see for the remainder of the season but it's not looking good at all, the car is pants nevertheless.

[Dunlay]

Comparing Hamilton and Russell's performances is a moot point. Hamilton is going through the period that Schumacher and Vettel already went through. These guys have been exceptional talents and then drove dominant machines. Once they landed into ordinary equipment, they don't have the desire to try harder as they will never be happy whether they get a 4th or 5th on the grid. Russell's situation is similar to that of Rosberg in 2010+, Daniel in 2014 and Charles in 2019/20. Young upstarts out there to prove themselves against illustrious team mates. I don't think Russell is better than Hamilton in any way, but he has everything to gain by trying his absolute best in a bad car. Hamilton less so. Russell is undeniably one of the best drivers on the grid.

[Il Leone]

Comparing Hamilton and Russell's performances is a moot point. Hamilton is going through the period that Schumacher and Vettel already went through. These guys have been exceptional talents and then drove dominant machines. Once they landed into ordinary equipment, they don't have the desire to try harder as they will never be happy whether they get a 4th or 5th on the grid. Russell's situation is similar to that of Rosberg in 2010+, Daniel in 2014 and Charles in 2019/20. Young upstarts out there to prove themselves against illustrious team mates. I don't think Russell is better than Hamilton in any way, but he has everything to gain by trying his absolute best in a bad car. Hamilton less so. Russell is undeniably one of the best drivers on the grid.

This is creating a narrative to find an excuse, Schumacher never showed any signs of not trying, he just no longer had it, it's now looking the same for Lewis. At the end of the day your benchmark is your teammate, if you can't beat him then I'm sorry it effects your legacy.

[Dunlay]

Comparing Hamilton and Russell's performances is a moot point. Hamilton is going through the period that Schumacher and Vettel already went through. These guys have been exceptional talents and then drove dominant machines. Once they landed into ordinary equipment, they don't have the desire to try harder as they will never be happy whether they get a 4th or 5th on the grid. Russell's situation is similar to that of Rosberg in 2010+, Daniel in 2014 and Charles in 2019/20. Young upstarts out there to prove themselves against illustrious team mates. I don't think Russell is better than Hamilton in any way, but he has everything to gain by trying his absolute best in a bad car. Hamilton less so. Russell is undeniably one of the best drivers on the grid.

This is creating a narrative to find an excuse, Schumacher never showed any signs of not trying, he just no longer had it, it's now looking the same for Lewis. At the end of the day your benchmark is your teammate, if you can't beat him then I'm sorry it effects your legacy.

Legacy is not a seasonal commodity that affects with inflation. Once established, it's history.

[Il Leone]

Comparing Hamilton and Russell's performances is a moot point. Hamilton is going through the period that Schumacher and Vettel already went through. These guys have been exceptional talents and then drove dominant machines. Once they landed into ordinary equipment, they don't have the desire to try harder as they will never be happy whether they get a 4th or 5th on the grid. Russell's situation is similar to that of Rosberg in 2010+, Daniel in 2014 and Charles in 2019/20. Young upstarts out there to prove themselves against illustrious team mates. I don't think Russell is better than Hamilton in any way, but he has everything to gain by trying his absolute best in a bad car. Hamilton less so. Russell is undeniably one of the best drivers on the grid.

This is creating a narrative to find an excuse, Schumacher never showed any signs of not trying, he just no longer had it, it's now looking the same for Lewis. At the end of the day your benchmark is your teammate, if you can't beat him then I'm sorry it effects your legacy.

Legacy is not a seasonal commodity that affects with inflation. Once established, it's history.

No, Vettel is the prime example.