2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[Dimond]

They should have put Norris immediately on the next lap for a tyre change. He seemed to had the momentum. Boxing him after 5 laps costed 2nd position if you look how close it was.

I think he would have rejoined right behind Perez and Alonso

[willmesquita]

I've been taking a look at the Q3 data for the first 3 races.

So far, on average, we've been 1.7% faster with the MCL38 compared to the unupgraded version of the MCL60 (for comparison, Red Bull is 0.9% faster).

Obviously, this gain cannot be extrapolated to Suzuka, since we were there with the optimized version of MCL60. Even so, if we repeat the gain we had at Jeddah (track with the lowest gain so far), we will be just 2 and a half tenths behind the faster Red Bull. (And we know last year we could be faster at Q3).

Probably in an open fight with Ferrari (I will include them in future analyses).

Great fights ahead!

[MTudor]

P2 was right there for the taking, maybe even P2-3. Still lacking in the strategy department a bit. Lando had the pace to hold on to P2, In hindsight, he should have gotten to pit first. But still a podium and strong points haul, putting more daylight to Mercedes.

No it wasn't!!!

[mwillems]

What surprises and impresses me at the same time is not the pure race pace itself, but the degradation of the tires. This is what I understand, the team has made great progress. Or, McLaren cars had the least granulation of tires.

https://i.ibb.co/fHprQ9X/056-EAACA-8-FF ... -C40-A.png
https://i.ibb.co/nkF2rRL/9-DA4-FE18-CAC ... A98-F2.png
https://i.ibb.co/G9fjnwb/BAE99-A73-D55- ... C940-F.png
https://i.ibb.co/7tf5Q39/E42-CB518-354- ... 95-BA1.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/9yPhRq5/9-A997-ABB-75- ... A22-CE.jpg

P.S.: mwillems, If your next prediction is that McLaren will challenge Red Bull at Suzuka, I won't argue with you.

Sadly, no! lol

I'm patiently waiting for racefans to upload their data, as curiously in the race, throughout the race in fact, at the start and end of the stints, across the stints, we were a match for raw speed against Ferrari with DRS closed, but I need to see if we were following and getting a tow.

Turn 3 is not great, but not awful. But in the final two long turns we lose half a second every time...

If they could just get on top of that aero in the long corners we'd be winning races and a match for RB across the season, it's literally all it is, everywhere else they have created a fantastic car. But it is like the ancient Greek achilles. Only this one has feet like a basketball player and a heel to match! It's a big weakness that affects us right onto the home straight.

Looking at Suzuka, I fear for turns 2, 9, 11 and there are others that we may not enjoy, some of my confidence for Suzuka is eroding. Nobody will challenge us for third fastest car, but I'm beginning to change my mind about being close to Ferrari again. But still, it will be a good race.

For those noting a drop in our relative race pace as we get towards an empty tank, today we actually got faster and was probably the fastest car in the final stint on the soft tyres.

[mwillems]

Not enough laps from Max to tell, but there's the idea dangling that we could have beat Max on merit today anyway... and it will not be answered in any way at all, sadly.

[Sphere3758]

What surprises and impresses me at the same time is not the pure race pace itself, but the degradation of the tires. This is what I understand, the team has made great progress. Or, McLaren cars had the least granulation of tires.

https://i.ibb.co/fHprQ9X/056-EAACA-8-FF ... -C40-A.png
https://i.ibb.co/nkF2rRL/9-DA4-FE18-CAC ... A98-F2.png
https://i.ibb.co/G9fjnwb/BAE99-A73-D55- ... C940-F.png
https://i.ibb.co/7tf5Q39/E42-CB518-354- ... 95-BA1.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/9yPhRq5/9-A997-ABB-75- ... A22-CE.jpg

P.S.: mwillems, If your next prediction is that McLaren will challenge Red Bull at Suzuka, I won't argue with you.

Sadly, no! lol

I'm patiently waiting for racefans to upload their data, as curiously in the race, throughout the race in fact, at the start and end of the stints, across the stints, we were a match for raw speed against Ferrari with DRS closed, but I need to see if we were following and getting a tow.

Turn 3 is not great, but not awful. But in the final two long turns we lose half a second every time...

If they could just get on top of that aero in the long corners we'd be winning races and a match for RB across the season, it's literally all it is, everywhere else they have created a fantastic car. But it is like the ancient Greek achilles. Only this one has feet like a basketball player and a heel to match! It's a big weakness that affects us right onto the home straight.

Looking at Suzuka, I fear for turns 2, 9, 11 and there are others that we may not enjoy, some of my confidence for Suzuka is eroding. Nobody will challenge us for third fastest car, but I'm beginning to change my mind about being close to Ferrari again. But still, it will be a good race.

For those noting a drop in our relative race pace as we get towards an empty tank, today we actually got faster and was probably the fastest car in the final stint on the soft tyres.

I believe Lando was a little less than a tenth (0.083) faster than Charles in the last stint, but Charles was on 5 lap older hards. So not much to differentiate there, but still great pace.

[mwillems]

Faster than Sainz also though, but again by a little. But given previous drop off at the end of the race, it was a nice counterpoint.

[LionsHeart]

What surprises and impresses me at the same time is not the pure race pace itself, but the degradation of the tires. This is what I understand, the team has made great progress. Or, McLaren cars had the least granulation of tires.

https://i.ibb.co/fHprQ9X/056-EAACA-8-FF ... -C40-A.png
https://i.ibb.co/nkF2rRL/9-DA4-FE18-CAC ... A98-F2.png
https://i.ibb.co/G9fjnwb/BAE99-A73-D55- ... C940-F.png
https://i.ibb.co/7tf5Q39/E42-CB518-354- ... 95-BA1.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/9yPhRq5/9-A997-ABB-75- ... A22-CE.jpg

P.S.: mwillems, If your next prediction is that McLaren will challenge Red Bull at Suzuka, I won't argue with you.

Sadly, no! lol

I'm patiently waiting for racefans to upload their data, as curiously in the race, throughout the race in fact, at the start and end of the stints, across the stints, we were a match for raw speed against Ferrari with DRS closed, but I need to see if we were following and getting a tow.

Turn 3 is not great, but not awful. But in the final two long turns we lose half a second every time...

If they could just get on top of that aero in the long corners we'd be winning races and a match for RB across the season, it's literally all it is, everywhere else they have created a fantastic car. But it is like the ancient Greek achilles. Only this one has feet like a basketball player and a heel to match! It's a big weakness that affects us right onto the home straight.

Looking at Suzuka, I fear for turns 2, 9, 11 and there are others that we may not enjoy, some of my confidence for Suzuka is eroding. Nobody will challenge us for third fastest car, but I'm beginning to change my mind about being close to Ferrari again. But still, it will be a good race.

For those noting a drop in our relative race pace as we get towards an empty tank, today we actually got faster and was probably the fastest car in the final stint on the soft tyres.

Yes, I was afraid of problems in turns 3 and 13. Although I must admit, the car was generally stable throughout the race. On the medium tires there was a lack of pace and efficiency, but on the hard tires everything went very well.

No matter how you look at it, today the team collected a lot of points. It's like we're back in the second half of 2023.

[mwillems]

Me too, I wasn't expecting half a second on the final two corners though. Turn 3 was not great, but not terrible either. The final turn was taken at 165 so I'm looking to see at what speed those long rotations punish us less. Turn 14 at Japan leads to the big straight and it will be taken at about 165 to 170 this year. It may not be good.

On the plus side, just 1 DRS zone at Suzuka.

[Emag]

Unfortunately, it's not even about the last two corners, it's just the penultimate corner. With the downforce these cars have, the last corner is pretty much flat at those speeds.

But the performance at the penultimate corner is pretty bad.

Below is the comparison between two very similar laptimes on the last stint between Lando and Charles and Lando takes ~0.35s out of Charles during this lap only to lose ~0.3s on the penultimate corner. It's frustrating to have such a good car for 95% of a track and there is just one single corner which takes your whole advantage away.

[mwillems]

Unfortunately, it's not even about the last two corners, it's just the penultimate corner. With the downforce these cars have, the last corner is pretty much flat at those speeds.

But the performance at the penultimate corner is pretty bad.

Below is the comparison between two very similar laptimes on the last stint between Lando and Charles and Lando takes ~0.35s out of Charles during this lap only to lose ~0.3s on the penultimate corner. It's frustrating to have such a good car for 95% of a track and there is just one single corner which takes your whole advantage away.

https://i.imgur.com/72QkjRa.png

It depends which stint you look at, on the hards we lose time at both corners unfortunately, which laps/tyres were you looking at on your analysis?

Going back and looking at the softs and your right, the final corner was OK, not great, not bad and we were being punished universally on the penultimate. Either the tyres or the lighter car allowed us to perform better on the final corner on the softs in the final stint. I would guess that the issue at the front affects the car up to and including mid speed corners, but with the effect greater the slower we are. On the laps below we are .35 to nearly half a second down. The final corner isn't so bad in itself, it is the effect it has up till the start line which is where we start to get parity with the Ferrari.

I didn't post the throttle but it isn't flat out with fuel in the tank, it's about 60% throttle for the bulk of the corner, 80% as the exit starts and then it hits 100% shortly after. 165kph at the apex followed by a lengthy stint of suffering from a slower exit.



I'd love to know how much these cars weigh.

Edit: It is weight. The heavier car suffers in the long mid speed corner as it doesn't have the downforce to drag all the fuel round the corner. This is a snippet from 3 laps of stint 1 where we are 10kph down at the apex and actually slower in the final turn than the penultimate. Looking at the laptimes relative to LEC and SAI, we do indeed improve relative to our competitors as the race progresses. This will be a phenomenon specific to long mid speed corners with a heavier tank.



Final Edit: And now thinking back to Bahrain, the corner that they both hated, was like going round on three wheels and is not dissimilar to the final corner her at Australia, was the final corner at Bahrain.

[Mansell89]

Looking forward to Suzuka and seeing this years car in those sweeping high speeds. I expect us to be really solid but I think we have to acknowledge Ferrari, and quite possibly Aston, also have strengths in this area this season and so we may not necessarily be Max’s nearest challenger.

[LionsHeart]

In a general sense, my fears in the race were confirmed. The telemetry above clearly shows what losses occur in turn 13. Although while I was watching the race, it didn’t seem to me that McLaren was so bad. On the other hand, even in qualifying McLaren was not perfectly good there. Our cars rode the powerful sectors in the second sector. There were no losses at all in the race when the leaders did not have the opportunity to use DRS.

Even despite the high pace in the race, the McLaren chassis has a number of shortcomings in the race and they are associated specifically with slow corners. In a race, the car is fueled and heavier, which increases the time spent passing these slowest corners, which is a punishment for us.

This requires not only increasing the level of downforce in slow corners, but also changing the balance towards neutral. Until the team wins the understeer at the entrance to the turn, we shouldn’t expect any improvements.

[Emag]

Unfortunately, it's not even about the last two corners, it's just the penultimate corner. With the downforce these cars have, the last corner is pretty much flat at those speeds.

But the performance at the penultimate corner is pretty bad.

Below is the comparison between two very similar laptimes on the last stint between Lando and Charles and Lando takes ~0.35s out of Charles during this lap only to lose ~0.3s on the penultimate corner. It's frustrating to have such a good car for 95% of a track and there is just one single corner which takes your whole advantage away.

https://i.imgur.com/72QkjRa.png

It depends which stint you look at, on the hards we lose time at both corners unfortunately, which laps/tyres were you looking at on your analysis?

Going back and looking at the softs and your right, the final corner was OK, not great, not bad and we were being punished universally on the penultimate. Either the tyres or the lighter car allowed us to perform better on the final corner on the softs in the final stint. I would guess that the issue at the front affects the car up to and including mid speed corners, but with the effect greater the slower we are. On the laps below we are .35 to nearly half a second down. The final corner isn't so bad in itself, it is the effect it has up till the start line which is where we start to get parity with the Ferrari.

I didn't post the throttle but it isn't flat out with fuel in the tank, it's about 60% throttle for the bulk of the corner, 80% as the exit starts and then it hits 100% shortly after. 165kph at the apex followed by a lengthy stint of suffering from a slower exit.

https://i.ibb.co/H4SbZjw/Aus-FInal-Corners2.png

I'd love to know how much these cars weigh.

Edit: It is weight. The heavier car suffers in the long mid speed corner as it doesn't have the downforce to drag all the fuel round the corner. This is a snippet from 3 laps of stint 1 where we are 10kph down at the apex and actually slower in the final turn than the penultimate. Looking at the laptimes relative to LEC and SAI, we do indeed improve relative to our competitors as the race progresses. This will be a phenomenon specific to long mid speed corners with a heavier tank.

https://i.ibb.co/zr6rS7K/Aus-FInal-Corn ... -Stint.png

Final Edit: And now thinking back to Bahrain, the corner that they both hated, was like going round on three wheels and is not dissimilar to the final corner her at Australia, was the final corner at Bahrain.

Not sure which lap it was specifically. But I purposefully picked one that was in the last 10-15 laps of the race since both would be pushing at that stage with clear air in front.

[mwillems]

Unfortunately, it's not even about the last two corners, it's just the penultimate corner. With the downforce these cars have, the last corner is pretty much flat at those speeds.

But the performance at the penultimate corner is pretty bad.

Below is the comparison between two very similar laptimes on the last stint between Lando and Charles and Lando takes ~0.35s out of Charles during this lap only to lose ~0.3s on the penultimate corner. It's frustrating to have such a good car for 95% of a track and there is just one single corner which takes your whole advantage away.

https://i.imgur.com/72QkjRa.png

It depends which stint you look at, on the hards we lose time at both corners unfortunately, which laps/tyres were you looking at on your analysis?

Going back and looking at the softs and your right, the final corner was OK, not great, not bad and we were being punished universally on the penultimate. Either the tyres or the lighter car allowed us to perform better on the final corner on the softs in the final stint. I would guess that the issue at the front affects the car up to and including mid speed corners, but with the effect greater the slower we are. On the laps below we are .35 to nearly half a second down. The final corner isn't so bad in itself, it is the effect it has up till the start line which is where we start to get parity with the Ferrari.

I didn't post the throttle but it isn't flat out with fuel in the tank, it's about 60% throttle for the bulk of the corner, 80% as the exit starts and then it hits 100% shortly after. 165kph at the apex followed by a lengthy stint of suffering from a slower exit.

https://i.ibb.co/H4SbZjw/Aus-FInal-Corners2.png

I'd love to know how much these cars weigh.

Edit: It is weight. The heavier car suffers in the long mid speed corner as it doesn't have the downforce to drag all the fuel round the corner. This is a snippet from 3 laps of stint 1 where we are 10kph down at the apex and actually slower in the final turn than the penultimate. Looking at the laptimes relative to LEC and SAI, we do indeed improve relative to our competitors as the race progresses. This will be a phenomenon specific to long mid speed corners with a heavier tank.

https://i.ibb.co/zr6rS7K/Aus-FInal-Corn ... -Stint.png

Final Edit: And now thinking back to Bahrain, the corner that they both hated, was like going round on three wheels and is not dissimilar to the final corner her at Australia, was the final corner at Bahrain.

Not sure which lap it was specifically. But I purposefully picked one that was in the last 10-15 laps of the race since both would be pushing at that stage with clear air in front.

It's a good point.

I had to just add lap counts and convert distance to front in meters to seconds in the telemetry to figure out if there was an issue with dirty air. Through luck, the laps I selected in the first stint were at least 5 seconds behind the driver in front. I think typically you feel the difference at 3 seconds so they are probably representative.

In the middle sector, lap 29 was also a way off any drivers and is a tenth better than the other laps, but 27 and 28 would have been affected being about 2 seconds away, and the data does indeed look worse for those laps.

Looking at laps 29,30 and 31 is a better picture and we are losing .19 to .25 in the final corner also, but you can see the laptime loss easing off here, still not far off the loss in the penultimate corner but it is getting better, especially when you look at a range of Carlos laps in that final corner, it drops to a slightly lower loss.

So I still feel that there is an issue with lugging fuel around mid speed corners below 180 kph due to aero that will get better as the race progresses, but you are right in that the issues at the long slow speeds are immutable.