Dunlay wrote: ↑27 Mar 2024, 19:43
Mosin123 wrote: ↑27 Mar 2024, 19:20
Dunlay wrote: ↑27 Mar 2024, 13:37
So has been the case with Red Bull too. Current Mercedes situation is a good example to know that the top level management folks don't do much in terms of designing the cars. On one hand Red Bull lost so many key names, yet continues to perform better than any other team in the given scenario, whereas Mercedes struggles. Ferrari doesn't have great names in their top ranks, yet they continue to be in the top 3 and sometimes lead the field (although for less than full season or even half). It's not the big names that conceive ideas or design the cars, it's somewhere in the middle level and if that layer at Mercedes is not getting a hang of these regulations, then it doesn't matter whether it's Elliott or Allison that leads them.
So Redbull being on top is nothing to do with Neways past exp with ground effects?
How come its fine for Ferrari to finish top 3, but not Merc? If i remember rightly, Merc finished in front of Ferrari last year......
Losing Costa, Vowles, and Allison ( At start ) would have had a big impact on how things ran behind the scene and the organisation of things. They are some huge names in f1, and now they got Allison back, they lost Elliott. All big named people in key roles.
Don't believe everything you read or hear. If you want to believe one individual builds an entire car, it would be too far stretched. Newey gets way too much center stage and that probably helps Red Bull in shielding their deeper talents that design and build the car. I repeat, folks are the higher design nothing. They are the maximum validate designs and provide some insights but that's mostly it.
This is a small anecdote from Mark Huges.
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... ignificant.
that article says he did the suspension, and set all outlining principles and guildlines and over seen the work and corrected any mistakes they made........... EG he did it. Its like my boss telling me how to do my job and then me taking credit for his instructions... get real.
maygun wrote: ↑27 Mar 2024, 19:48
Mosin123 wrote: ↑27 Mar 2024, 19:20
So Redbull being on top is nothing to do with Neways past exp with ground effects?
How come its fine for Ferrari to finish top 3, but not Merc? If i remember rightly, Merc finished in front of Ferrari last year......
Losing Costa, Vowles, and Allison ( At start ) would have had a big impact on how things ran behind the scene and the organisation of things. They are some huge names in f1, and now they got Allison back, they lost Elliott. All big named people in key roles.
I would argue that Newey's effect is a bit overrated, he does not have too much ground effect F1 experience, and he just did a very basic ground effect dissertation during his bachelor's. Yes, he is the number one guy as an F1 engineer, but ~1k number of people have an effect on the end result.
When it comes to Merc I think losing names was one reason, but my bet is they couldn't figure out how to get around of budget cap effectively as others did.
For instance, you can develop these simulation/CFD tools in your other company, and sell them to your own F1 team at a reasonable price. Or send some of your engineers to the applied science team for 6 months, do some R&D work, and then hire them back. I am not super familiar with the recent rules, but have a doubt that Merc is not using very effectively, and Toto seems too strict and careful about it (I think once he mentioned he literally built a big accountant team so that they can be sure they are on the limit).
Hmm, he designed the AM - RB 01 ( Or you saying all those 100's of millions didnt go into researching ground effects in 2016? )
He is liteerally the leading areo dude on the grid when it comes to ground effecst, he is excellent, not good, not " new " like the rest of the grid, he is " Excellent " leading example, the best, the greatest, the GOAT.
SoulPancake13 wrote: ↑27 Mar 2024, 19:51
Mosin123 wrote: ↑27 Mar 2024, 19:20
Dunlay wrote: ↑27 Mar 2024, 13:37
So has been the case with Red Bull too. Current Mercedes situation is a good example to know that the top level management folks don't do much in terms of designing the cars. On one hand Red Bull lost so many key names, yet continues to perform better than any other team in the given scenario, whereas Mercedes struggles. Ferrari doesn't have great names in their top ranks, yet they continue to be in the top 3 and sometimes lead the field (although for less than full season or even half). It's not the big names that conceive ideas or design the cars, it's somewhere in the middle level and if that layer at Mercedes is not getting a hang of these regulations, then it doesn't matter whether it's Elliott or Allison that leads them.
So Redbull being on top is nothing to do with Neways past exp with ground effects?
How come its fine for Ferrari to finish top 3, but not Merc? If i remember rightly, Merc finished in front of Ferrari last year......
Losing Costa, Vowles, and Allison ( At start ) would have had a big impact on how things ran behind the scene and the organisation of things. They are some huge names in f1, and now they got Allison back, they lost Elliott. All big named people in key roles.
Of course a mind like Newey is very helpful with designing these kinds of cars, but it doesn't explain how before TD39 how Ferrari with a bunch of "nobodies" relative to Newey made a car that was just as fast. Even Red Bull admitted that last season, they were surprised at how far ahead they were(it seems the other competition really messed up their development), Newey even went on to say how it wasn't all that special. What matters most is the understanding of how the car works, Red Bull got that from day 1 and that's why they are winning. McLaren and Ferrari understand it now and are closing in. Mercedes, regardless of the "top" level name, do not seem to understand these cars, so no matter what big name you lose or bring in, it won't matter.
Ferrari was 100 % going againts the very spirit of the rules, it wasnt a shock it was swiftly changed, they was practically cheating.
McLaren last year didnt even finished top 15 first two races after swapping to Redbulls suspension, but finished the last half of the season with the clear 2nd best car. AM had started the season with the clear 2nd fastest car, yet finished 4th.
Im not one for picking the best of the rest after the first 3 races of a 24 race season, even more so, when it went to the very last race the year before.